Support Interned Republican Socialist Prisoners

[eghzarw]

The following is an email sent by an administrator of "Concerned Group for Republican Prisoners".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A cairde

I spoke to one of the IRSCNA Coordinator over the weekend and expressing our support for the recently Interned members of the IRSP in Ireland and offering our help to highlight the injustices being perpetrated against Political activists in the Free State with the use of Draconian powers to remove activists from the streets and intern them in prison or remand them on bail with such massive civil liberty restrictions that they cannot move from the house without fear of their bail being revoked and put in prison for periods anywhere up to a year only for the charges to be dropped or to be sentenced on the word of a senior Guard who cannot be challenged and with the politically motivated judges sitting on these special courts any trial usually is a farce.

The brutality used against the men arrested recently was brutal and intent on causing serious physical harm to those arrested.

Can people take a few moments to sent cards or letters to the Republican Socialist Prisoners E4 Landing and for those in a position to send help financially please use the details below.

The use of special powers by the Free State against Republicans is nothing new but the treatment being given to the IRSP and their supporters is intolerable and unjust and aimed at stiffiling Political opposition the constant attacks on Republicans and the use of the Draconian laws and the control of the mainstream media to attempt to criminalise Republicans bears testament to the strength and commitment of the men and women still active in Republicanism who will not be intimidated or allow our cause to be criminalised.

Go raibh maith agaibh

Sean

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Chairde,


Five IRSP and Teach Na Fáilte (ex-POW community workers) members have been recently interned by the Irish government and subjected to extreme brutality by the Special Branch police. Two have sustained injuries requiring hospitalization. One of the men seriously injured is wheel chair-bound. We desperately need everyone to speak out against this unprovoked violence so that it cannot be repeated.

The RSPOWs in Portlaoise Prison appreciate the outpouring of support and concern from all over the world. But concrete help is needed. These new prisoners are joining three other recently arrested and imprisoned members, and support funds are quite low. Please send any funds you can spare to aid these prisoners of conscience, as well as cards and letters which are greatly appreciated.

Send messages of support to:

Republican Socialist Prisoners
E4 Landing
Portlaoise Prison
Portlaoise, Co. Laois
Ireland

Send funds to support the Prisoners’ Dependents to:

Teach na Failte
392A Falls Road
Belfast BT12 6DH
Ireland

Is Muidne,
IRSCNA
PO Box 901479 Kansas City, Missouri 64190-1479 USA
http://www.irscna.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 2nd, 2008

A Chairde,

After a meeting today with Eddie McGarrigle, John Mc Crossan and Neil Myles in Portlaoise internment camp, Eddie has asked us to express the following

Sentiments, " Do not be influenced by the tripe you read in the right wing media regarding our recent arrest and subsequent charge of membership. In all the hours of questioning that we endured never once was it mentioned to us about tiger kidnapping, weapons etc. This tripe reported in the media should be viewed for what it is, an attempt by securicrats working to a political agenda to demonize, criminalize and demoralize the membership of the IRSM. No charges have been laid against any of us which includes the two Dublin lads (who were released on bail), in connection to the lies planted in the media.

I want to put on record that the treatment that we all received whilst in custody was nothing short of torture. The Irish Government speak out and condemn human rights abuses in faraway places such as China and Iran, whilst there political police in the free state can carry out such acts without impunity, such hypocrisy. I myself was thrown out of my wheel chair onto the ground a number of times by a number of special branch interrogators, who took great delight in stamping, punching and slapping me in the head and body, whilst making sure that they had the camera turned off in the interrogation room. All the other lads suffered the same and more at the fists and boots of our torturers.

Eventually we were charged with membership of an illegal organization namely the INLA and remanded to Portlaoise Internment camp ( The Irish Free States, Guantanamo Bay) . A charge frequently used by the free state to intern Republicans-Republican Socialists. At our bail hearing in the diplock special criminal court, the state fiercely opposed bail to all of us. Superintendent Dermot O'Sullivan was the main objector to bail, swearing under oath that the accused were involved in a conspiracy to extort money for the INLA from a businessman in Cork. When our legal team objected to O'Sullivan's evidence on the basis that none of us before the court were charged with any offence connected to evidence submitted by O Sullivan, one of the three judges quipped that he would allow the superintendent to continue with his evidence solely because " The state was alledging that the accused were members of the INLA and it was reasonable to ascertain that you don't join the INLA and do nothing. I like many others have read the newspapers in regards to reports of tiger kidnappings and seisure of weapons". How can anyone one of us expect any kind of justice when one of the judges on the bench comes out with such tripe?.

Thankfully after a number of legal objections and arguments by our legal team, the three Judges in the diplock court set bail with stringent conditions and hopefully myself, John and Neil will be released in a week or so.

Eddie and the Lads would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who highlighted and continue to highlight the injustice of their internment, and treatment endured at the fists and feet of the free states political police, particularly, Teach Na Failte (Strabane, Derry, Belfast) , The Ard Comhairle of the IRSP, IRSCNA, members of the IRSM and concerned individuals who sent messages of support and solidarity. They would especially like to thank the Staff and Volunteers of the RIRA within Portlaoise internment camp particularly Aidan O"Driscoll and Aidan Hulme for the support, comradeship and practical support they bestowed on them, they also wish to thank the 32CSM, Eirigi, United Republicans, Other Republicans for there solidarity. Last but not least they would like to thank W Gallagher for all the campaigning work he has done on there behalf and wish him a happy 50th birthday tomorrow.

Is Mise

John Murtagh and John Farrell ( On behalf of Eddie, Neil, and Johnny)

[redflag32]

Best of luck to all involved

[Hessian Peel]

Best of luck to these comrades.

[East Tyrone]

and remanded to Portlaoise Internment camp ( The Irish Free States, Guantanamo Bay)
A tad excessive?

[Hessian Peel]

A tad excessive?

Perhaps, but don't you think you'd be pretty bitter in a similar situtaion?

And why can't you just express solidarity with these men rather than looking for something to criticize?

[East Tyrone]

Perhaps, but don't you think you'd be pretty bitter in a similar situtaion?

And why can't you just express solidarity with these men rather than looking for something to criticize?

Being bitter is one thing, grossly exaggerating your conditions of incarceration is another thing altogether. These conditions are being stated as being equivalent to the inhumane treatment of hostages at the Guantanamo torture facility. The statement of such a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation is most detrimental to the credibility of these men, imo. As such, I would have grave reservations about making any gesture in regard to them in the absence of more information.

[eghzarw]

Being bitter is one thing, grossly exaggerating your conditions of incarceration is another thing altogether. These conditions are being stated as being equivalent to the inhumane treatment of hostages at the Guantanamo torture facility. The statement of such a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation is most detrimental to the credibility of these men, imo. As such, I would have grave reservations about making any gesture in regard to them in the absence of more information.

Yes, please, do the lads a favour and don't make any gestures in regard of them! :eusa_pray:
Your deep analysis of the situation is quite, quite enough of a gesture already.

[redflag32]

Being bitter is one thing, grossly exaggerating your conditions of incarceration is another thing altogether. These conditions are being stated as being equivalent to the inhumane treatment of hostages at the Guantanamo torture facility. The statement of such a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation is most detrimental to the credibility of these men, imo. As such, I would have grave reservations about making any gesture in regard to them in the absence of more information.


Are you saying you think Eddie McGarrigle was lying when he said the following "I myself was thrown out of my wheel chair onto the ground a number of times by a number of special branch interrogators, who took great delight in stamping, punching and slapping me in the head and body, whilst making sure that they had the camera turned off in the interrogation room. All the other lads suffered the same and more at the fists and boots of our torturers."?

[East Tyrone]

Are you saying you think Eddie McGarrigle was lying when he said the following "I myself was thrown out of my wheel chair onto the ground a number of times by a number of special branch interrogators, who took great delight in stamping, punching and slapping me in the head and body, whilst making sure that they had the camera turned off in the interrogation room. All the other lads suffered the same and more at the fists and boots of our torturers."?

Was he claiming that this happened in Portlaoise; is it now a torture camp the same as Guantanamo? Read my post again, I was most specific in what I said; there is no need to spin it.

[redflag32]

Was he claiming that this happened in Portlaoise; is it now a torture camp the same as Guantanamo? Read my post again, I was most specific in what I said; there is no need to spin it.

We got your point regarding the guantanamo comment, what im more interested in is when you said "I would have grave reservations about making any gesture in regard to them in the absence of more information."

If you believe what Eddie has said RE; what i quoted above, then you would not need anymore information before you make a kind gesture for their well being.

But if you consider what he said to be a lie, then you would need further information. The only other source for this information is the free state police, are you putting their word over Eddies?

Do you believe what he said or not comrade?

[Vox Populi]

Perhaps they were refering to the interment of political activists ala Guantanamo Bay and not the way they have been treated. Which although horrific and harrowing, is as ET points out a bit excessive from that standpoint.

[East Tyrone]

We got your point regarding the guantanamo comment, what im more interested in is when you said "I would have grave reservations about making any gesture in regard to them in the absence of more information."

If you believe what Eddie has said RE; what i quoted above, then you would not need anymore information before you make a kind gesture for their well being.

But if you consider what he said to be a lie, then you would need further information. The only other source for this information is the free state police, are you putting their word over Eddies?

Do you believe what he said or not comrade?

I believe that there could be some truth in what he said and I also believe that he could be telling lies. I believe that there could have been some innocent political reason for them being gathered in Munster; but, I also believe that they could have been engaged in some type of organised crime. That's the moral dilema faced when considering expressions of solidarity with what could end up being little better than the DHLA.

[derryirp]

ET is obviously trolling again. If he offered support to Eddie and the boys I'm quite sure it would be rejected outright.

[East Tyrone]

ET is obviously trolling again. If he offered support to Eddie and the boys I'm quite sure it would be rejected outright.

Well, it looks like the vast majority of posters are also reserving judgement until better informed about the facts of this case. With the history of the movement concerned, it is the most logical and sensible course of action.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

why the distinction,you say support irish republican socialist prisoners,so non socialist republicans should not be supported,this is absurd.all volunteers are REPUBLICAN FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDRY.

[Vox Populi]

why the distinction,you say support irish republican socialist prisoners,so non socialist republicans should not be supported,this is absurd.all volunteers are REPUBLICAN FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDRY.It says 'Support Interned Republican Socialist Prisoners', referring to the Republican Socialist political prisoners that have been interned recently, it doesn't refer to anyone else nor does it don't support anyone else. It is about a single issue.

However, the IRSP is the only republican group that supports all Republican political prisoners. RSF in this regard truely is 'Ourselves Athlone' indeed.

[belfast rep]

why the distinction,you say support irish republican socialist prisoners,so non socialist republicans should not be supported,this is absurd.all volunteers are REPUBLICAN FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDRY.


You now speak for all volunteers, is like pretending your in a political party?

[eghzarw]

why the distinction,you say support irish republican socialist prisoners,so non socialist republicans should not be supported,this is absurd.all volunteers are REPUBLICAN FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDRY.

I only quoted the email I had received, ad litteram. It's not my distinction but the author's. On the other hand, this post is precisely about one group of republican prisoners, affiliated to the IRSP. Nobody said other republican POWs shouldn't be supported.

[Ernie O'Malley]

It says 'Support Interned Republican Socialist Prisoners', referring to the Republican Socialist political prisoners that have been interned recently, it doesn't refer to anyone else nor does it don't support anyone else. It is about a single issue.

However, the IRSP is the only republican group that supports all Republican political prisoners. RSF in this regard truely is 'Ourselves Athlone' indeed.

I along with comrades support IRSP internees a chara, I think you have mis-interpreted the RSF stance.
Cabhair and the RPAG is the support network for RM Prisoners, as the RSM have their support networks.

[Vox Populi]

I along with comrades support IRSP internees a chara, I think you have mis-interpreted the RSF stance.
Cabhair and the RPAG is the support network for RM Prisoners, as the RSM have their support networks.RSF, RPAG, etc, do not support anyone but there own, refuse to take part in protests with other groups and refused the setting up of a broad prisoner campaign group. Refer to Saoirse circa July/August 06 when the IRSP attended a protest organised by RSF and were completely ignored in the Saoirse write-up, despite the IRSP making up the overwhelming majority of the protest and their picture in the paper being as clear as day as to who is in it and what posters they are holding.

[mobaction]

in germany are dozens of people for years in prison because the authorities say they are members of pkk or dhkp/c...

good luck to the irsp comrades!

[Ernie O'Malley]

RSF, RPAG, etc, do not support anyone but there own, refuse to take part in protests with other groups and refused the setting up of a broad prisoner campaign group. Refer to Saoirse circa July/August 06 when the IRSP attended a protest organised by RSF and were completely ignored in the Saoirse write-up, despite the IRSP making up the overwhelming majority of the protest and their picture in the paper being as clear as day as to who is in it and what posters they are holding.

Why would Cabhair or RPAG support anyone whom doesnt request their support?
The RSM do not either, I was at numerous pickets whic were represented by various groups, If the IRSP want a mention they get it in the Plough do they not?
Completely ignored? I dispute that, perhaps a few individuals didnt respond I dont know I have never ignored anyone good enough to come to a picket or protest I dont know many that do do you?

[Vox Populi]

Why would Cabhair or RPAG support anyone whom doesnt request their support?
The RSM do not either, I was at numerous pickets whic were represented by various groups, If the IRSP want a mention they get it in the Plough do they not?
Completely ignored? I dispute that, perhaps a few individuals didnt respond I dont know I have never ignored anyone good enough to come to a picket or protest I dont know many that do do you?RSF ignored the IRSP and refuse to engage or support a broad political status campaign. Refer to the issue of Saoirse I suggested. Even during the speech on the day, the fella speaking thanked everyone but the IRSP.

[Ernie O'Malley]

RSF ignored the IRSP and refuse to engage or support a broad political status campaign. Refer to the issue of Saoirse I suggested. Even during the speech on the day, the fella speaking thanked everyone but the IRSP.

Not meaning to sound offensive or arrogant but I dont really understand why the IRSP would be offended by not getting a shout out?
The RSM have their own media, it is their responsibility to publish their activities is it not?
RSF are different than Cabhair and the RPAG too, their "No Broad Front" issue has been well explained over the past few years, although as far as RSF are concerned it is my understanding that RSF are prepared to confront issues that affect the entire people with the entire people

[Vox Populi]

People were annoyed but the real issue isn't emotion, its politics. The elitism from RSF is well established. The event wasn't an IRSP activity, it was an RSF activity. The IRSP were ignored, both on the day and in Saoirse, despite making up the overwhelming majority of the protest. The 'no broad front' policy is elitism, to goto the extent to ignore people for supporting RSF events for fear of selling out a government that hasn't existed for 90 odd years is both incorrect and sounds more like a cult than a political organisation. If RPAG is an independent organisation, why can they not work with the IRSP, nevermind awknowledge their presense at an event for prisoners? Does the broad front policy further the goal of attaining political status or is it a brick wall?

[Ernie O'Malley]

People were annoyed but the real issue isn't emotion, its politics. The elitism from RSF is well established. The event wasn't an IRSP activity, it was an RSF activity. The IRSP were ignored, both on the day and in Saoirse, despite making up the overwhelming majority of the protest. The 'no broad front' policy is elitism, to goto the extent to ignore people for supporting RSF events for fear of selling out a government that hasn't existed for 90 odd years is both incorrect and sounds more like a cult than a political organisation. If RPAG is an independent organisation, why can they not work with the IRSP, nevermind awknowledge their presense at an event for prisoners? Does the broad front policy further the goal of attaining political status or is it a brick wall?

Well firstly I have yet to meet an "Eltist" RSF person, elitism is something associated with wealth and blind power, not dignity and stead fastness.
If the IRSP attend any activity on behalf of the IRSP it is an IRSP activity and therefore is the duty of the IRSP to reresent it.
The rest of this is just emotion, bordering elitism, the elitism of pertaining to know more about the Republic than the people whom uphold it a chara.
As you seem to misinterpret the No Broad front policy, I will forward and extract from the Ardfheis debate as reported in Saoirse.

Three motions dealing with broad
front issues caused a lively debate.
The first motion, No 29, from the
Dáithí Ó Conaill Cumann, Monaghan
was amended to read: “That this Ard-
Fheis reiterate our opposition to
political broad fronts which serve to
dilute the national objective as
expressed in the 1916 Proclamation.”
No 30, from the Casement/Hughes
Cumann, Dublin, read: “That this Ard-
Fheis, while not promoting broad
fronts, removed the ban on taking part
in political activities with other
political groupings” and no 31, from
the Liam Lynch/Armagh Martyrs
Cumann, Armagh Keady, the
McKearney/McCaughey Cumann,
Dungannon and Comhairle Uladh,
read: “That this Ard-Fheis revokes the
ban on members of RSF taking a
platform/debate with other
political/people/parties portraying as
the Republican Movement.”
Speakers in favour of nos 30 and 31
felt that the ban on being part of broad
fronts tied the hands of RSF members
in taking part in political activity. It
was pointed out that this was not so
and that members of RSF all over
Ireland were involved in community
issues along with people of various
political hues and of none and that the
ban was merely on being part of a
broad front with organisations who
claimed to be the Republican
Movement. Taking part in such fronts
weakened the cause of the true
Republican Movement.
After much debate motion no 29
was passed as amended and nos 30
and 31 were defeated.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

You now speak for all volunteers, is like pretending your in a political party?

belfast rep would you like to explain how a non republican volunteer would fit into any REPUBLICAN army?

it is obvious all volunteers are republican if there fighting in a republican army.

[belfast rep]

belfast rep would you like to explain how a non republican volunteer would fit into any REPUBLICAN army?

it is obvious all volunteers are republican if there fighting in a republican army.

Now please this question where did i say volunteers were not republican ?
i answered this quote where you purpose to talk for all volunteers
why the distinction,you say support irish republican socialist prisoners,so non socialist republicans should not be supported,this is absurd.all volunteers are REPUBLICAN FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDRY.
seeing as you know all republican volunteers and have been chosen as their spokeperson, you must have meet at least one whose primary concern is a socialist Ireland.
second why should we listen to any of your claims given the fact you have previously claimed to a member of RSF,
Lastly i could have sworn you called someone a wannabe in another post, i much prefer a wannabe( they have potential) to a pretendtobe (they are just dishonest)

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Now please this question where did i say volunteers were not republican ?
i answered this quote where you purpose to talk for all volunteers

seeing as you know all republican volunteers and have been chosen as their spokeperson, you must have meet at least one whose primary concern is a socialist Ireland.
second why should we listen to any of your claims given the fact you have previously claimed to a member of RSF,
Lastly i could have sworn you called someone a wannabe in another post, i much prefer a wannabe( they have potential) to a pretendtobe (they are just dishonest)


so what your saying belfast rep is,republicanism does not come first is that it?

[Ernie O'Malley]

I feel RSF have been clear on the Issue of Broadfronts, and Upfront, there is no corecion or subversion contained in their refusal to participate in a Political Broad Front.
I am also of the beliefs that CIRA Prisoners of War engaged in a strike for all Political Prisoners and I am aware that those on the Picket lines supported this in earnest.
I do not feel that the IRSP should be annoyed about it or that it should be seen as a snub.
I would not expect any recognition for acting on behalf of interned members of the IRSP or any other issue that effected members of the communtiy.
The accusations of Elitism directed against RSF on this issue contain elitism, a view that the RSF view is Wrong and ridiculous when this is not the case.
The accusations criticise RSF for holding their view sacred, the IRSP hold them selves as the "Only" Republican Socialist movement, and have judged others as right wing the IRSP fundementally disagree with Éire Nua which is the IRSP's choice and they should not be criticised for that.
I see and understand the differences contained in each party and respect both parties.
I do not think that RSF proclaims to be anything different than any other party the only difference with RSF is their view is supported with historical continuity and this is criticised.
I do not see how a No Broad Front issue would prevent Political Status as it is CIRA prisoners directing the Campaign.
If the IRSP were offended then I sincerely hope they raised the issue so as to prevent is from reocurring, although I would still hold the view IRSP moilisation on any issue is still IRSP activity and therefore their responsiblity to report it.

[belfast rep]

so what your saying belfast rep is,republicanism does not come first is that it?

Are you not going answer anything asked of you, fair enough i expected no less, with the greatest of disrespect i have only a problem with you saying ' all volunteers' when in my honest opinion the amount of volunteers you have probably met would most likely be counted on one finger

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Are you not going answer anything asked of you, fair enough i expected no less, with the greatest of disrespect i have only a problem with you saying ' all volunteers' when in my honest opinion the amount of volunteers you have probably met would most likely be counted on one finger

haha,more pathetic attempts at information gathering,how much does your handler pay you,but to be honest your more than likely just a spook,you seem like the dumb kind.

ALL members of the Irish Republican Army have proffesed to be republican,otherwise they wouldnt be what they claim to be,REPUBLICAN,is it sinking in.

[belfast rep]

haha,more pathetic attempts at information gathering,how much does your handler pay you,but to be honest your more than likely just a spook,you seem like the dumb kind.

ALL members of the Irish Republican Army have proffesed to be republican,otherwise they wouldnt be what they claim to be,REPUBLICAN,is it sinking in.


here we go
I didn't ask you for details
i stated i do not beleive you have met a volunteer, never mind speaking for them all.
once again where did i say they were not republican? ( you do realise your making a fool of yourself on that point) i stated that for many their primary concern was a socialist Ireland, for example James Connolly.

but it was a good attempt to avoiding answering any questions oh and one more question which one of us was employed by the state armed forces?

[Vox Populi]

You've entirely missed the point Communitarian. RSF completely ignore other organisations as if they don't exist. That is elitism. The IRSP don't hold themselves as the only Republican Socialist organisation either.

[Ernie O'Malley]

You've entirely missed the point Communitarian. RSF completely ignore other organisations as if they don't exist. That is elitism. The IRSP don't hold themselves as the only Republican Socialist organisation either.

I like what you done there.
Anyhoo as has been clearly outlined by the party, not least in the piece I have given is that RSF will work with any group on a range of issues and do.
They do not partake in political Broad fronts this is not elitism this is party policy.
Party policy can only be challenged by party members so if it upsets you that much Join the party.
There is no difference in the stance of RSF and the Stance of the RSM, although RSF do not attack others as "right wing facists" for disagreeing with them.
On the Issues of POW's a CIRA Protest was on going and RSF RPAG and Cabhair got behind it, I dont think anyone snubbed anyone and would be sure that all help was and is appreciated.
The IRSP are a big party with growing support I am amazed that someone would let their emotions get in the way of Politics like this.
There is no justification for your negative opinion of RSF as there is absolutely noone with in RSF that I have met with a negative attitude towards the people of the RSM.
Emotions should be left at the door a chara not everyones out to get you!

[Vox Populi]

Anyhoo as has been clearly outlined by the party, not least in the piece I have given is that RSF will work with any group on a range of issues and do.Where? They even refuse to meet with the IRSP Ard Comhairle to discuss issues of common importance. They refused to attend the policing debates.


They do not partake in political Broad fronts this is not elitism this is party policy.Where is the broad front in sharing a platform with another group? They are kind enough to go to a meeting to heckle Adams or to entertain headcases like Anthony McIntrye and Gerry McGeough. According to the RSF code of conduct, the IRSP is a freestate organisation. The IRSP is mentioned by name. That in itself, shows the outright contempt and elitist attitude RSF holds towards the IRSP.

There is no difference in the stance of RSF and the Stance of the RSM, although RSF do not attack others as "right wing facists" for disagreeing with them.
When has the IRSP attacked RSF as "right wing facists (sic)"? Although I do believe RSF is right wing and has a fascist element in places, I would refrain from saying so. There are individuals in RSF who suscribe to McCarthyite anti-communism.


On the Issues of POW's a CIRA Protest was on going and RSF RPAG and Cabhair got behind it, I dont think anyone snubbed anyone and would be sure that all help was and is appreciated.But it wasn't. The IRSP was ignored on the day and in the write up in Saoirse. They were ignored.

The IRSP are a big party with growing support I am amazed that someone would let their emotions get in the way of Politics like this.
It's not emotions. It's reality. RSF's broad front policy is elitist and based on lies. They wouldn't attend a policing meeting because it 'dilutes the national objective', but will go to a meeting to harrang Adams.

[Ernie O'Malley]

Where? They even refuse to meet with the IRSP Ard Comhairle to discuss issues of common importance. They refused to attend the policing debates.

Sinn Féin poblachtach have no problem working with others on community issues.
The policing debates ignored the RSF position on colonial policing and disregarded the protestations of the party.

Where is the broad front in sharing a platform with another group?

Another group claiming to be the republican movement?


They are kind enough to go to a meeting to heckle Adams or to entertain headcases like Anthony McIntrye and Gerry McGeough. According to the RSF code of conduct, the IRSP is a freestate organisation. The IRSP is mentioned by name. That in itself, shows the outright contempt and elitist attitude RSF holds towards the IRSP.

Well I thought you were better than what you have written in the first part of that.
As for contempt towards the IRSP would it not be more about the IRSP's eagerness to participate in British and Freestate parliments therefore diluting republican principle through recognition and administration of colonial rule, rather than elitism, you cant ride two horses a chara and that is not the fault of RSF.

When has the IRSP attacked RSF as "right wing facists (sic)"? Although I do believe RSF is right wing and has a fascist element in places, I would refrain from saying so. There are individuals in RSF who suscribe to McCarthyite anti-communism.

Sweeping statement with out proof what can I say?

But it wasn't. The IRSP was ignored on the day and in the write up in Saoirse. They were ignored.

Tell me why the IRSP need pages dedicated to them in Saoirse? and how can you claim that the IRSP were ignored while also claiming they were the majority representation.
The way the IRSP would handle the same situation is no different than the way RSF did, it may be frustrating to come to terms with but it isnt RSF's duty to accomodate and represent the IRSP that is the duty of the IRSP only and if the IRSP are failing on those Issues well it is up to the IRSP to address it internally rather than externally blaming others.

=Vox Populi;82775It's not emotions. It's reality. RSF's broad front policy is elitist and based on lies. They wouldn't attend a policing meeting because it 'dilutes the national objective', but will go to a meeting to harrang Adams.

As the Broad Front policy has been explained and debated challenged and put through the motions as it is Party policy as it is logical then it is not elitistm the View that other parties take in refusing to recognise RSF's right to Policy is elitism personified.
RSF would not go to an RUC meeting for the simple reason that Colonial policing is completely illigitimate, there position was proved by the IRSP who picketed Beechmount then went in and legitimised the RUC presence by fielding quiestions to the RUC!!

You are judging RSF upon on of their points of policy, and seem to believe it affects you, as it is RSF policy then I do not know how that can cause you this continual frustration, is it perhaps you wish to represent what RSF does?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

here we go
I didn't ask you for details
i stated i do not beleive you have met a volunteer, never mind speaking for them all.
once again where did i say they were not republican? ( you do realise your making a fool of yourself on that point) i stated that for many their primary concern was a socialist Ireland, for example James Connolly.

but it was a good attempt to avoiding answering any questions oh and one more question which one of us was employed by the state armed forces?

can you name any leaders other than connolly who were cleraly marxist in the period of 1916,you are the fool,republicans are primarily concerned with the establishment of a 32 county REPUBLIC,IF then after that IF the people want a socialist REPUBUPLIC then so be it,you said i dont speak for all republicans/volunteers by saying they are all primarily concerned with the republic.you are very confused and have everything back to front.but i suppose thats what happens when you latch on to a failed ideology,such as marxism.

[liam]

can you name any leaders other than connolly who were cleraly marxist in the period of 1916,you are the fool,republicans are primarily concerned with the establishment of a 32 county REPUBLIC,IF then after that IF the people want a socialist REPUBUPLIC then so be it,you said i dont speak for all republicans/volunteers by saying they are all primarily concerned with the republic.you are very confused and have everything back to front.but i suppose thats what happens when you latch on to a failed ideology,such as marxism.

Inside the IRA's 'Green Book' they make it clear that their political goal is that of a socialist Republic and that 'All potential volunteers must be socialist in outlook.'

[RSF-Fianoglach]

yes socialist in outlook,does not mean fanatical marxist,also this is the updated version of the greenbook,it wasnt always this way,and like anything else is subject to change.

[liam]

yes socialist in outlook,does not mean fanatical marxist,also this is the updated version of the greenbook,it wasnt always this way,and like anything else is subject to change.

Your a typing contradiction.

[belfast rep]

Now who mentioned Marxism, ( not that there is anything wrong with Marxism)
But socialist. read the proclamation, cherish all the childern of the nation equally is a socialist statement( if not Marxist).
Many of the 1916, were influence the socialists in the 1916 and this is evident in the the proclamation and the programme for the 1st Dail.
Once again how do you talk for all republicans never mind volunteers(which was your orginally claim) i seriously doubt you talk for any, particularly in the party you imagine your a member or the army you support.
i did not claim that ALL republicans are concerned with anything, but i did state that MANY are primarily concerned with a socialist Ireland, i know you have a problem with facts but please try to stick to them.
Now lastly another question prior to this post where have i mentioned Marxism,
please answer at least one question at some point.

[belfast rep]

yes socialist in outlook,does not mean fanatical marxist,also this is the updated version of the greenbook,it wasnt always this way,and like anything else is subject to change.
but at this point in time it is a standard requirement of all volunteers?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

but at this point in time it is a standard requirement of all volunteers?

socialist in OUTLOOK,does not mean marxist,it means, believes in basic socialist principles of irish socialism.not the socialism that exists in the likes of cuba or south american countrys.

[Vox Populi]

socialist in OUTLOOK,does not mean marxist,it means, believes in basic socialist principles of irish socialism.not the socialism that exists in the likes of cuba or south american countrys.Cuba is the only Socialist country in the Americas. Regardless, what is Irish socialism?

[belfast rep]

socialist in OUTLOOK,does not mean marxist,it means, believes in basic socialist principles of irish socialism.not the socialism that exists in the likes of cuba or south american countrys.
but you are the only person mentioning Marxism, and does it say not Marxist socialism?

[KillinSnakes]

in regards to the original post that some have done a good job of getting off topic-

a big thank you is in order to the CGRP who have been steadfast in their support for the republican socialist movement stretching back years now. it's good to see that some see the big picture!

[rsfarmagh/keady]

RSF, RPAG, etc, do not support anyone but there own, refuse to take part in protests with other groups and refused the setting up of a broad prisoner campaign group. Refer to Saoirse circa July/August 06 when the IRSP attended a protest organised by RSF and were completely ignored in the Saoirse write-up, despite the IRSP making up the overwhelming majority of the protest and their picture in the paper being as clear as day as to who is in it and what posters they are holding.

Did you attend any of the white line pickets on the Fall's road when our prisoners were protesting for better conditions for ALL P.O.W's in Maghaberry ?
POLITICAL STATUS NOW !

[Vox Populi]

Re-read the post a chara.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Cuba is the only Socialist country in the Americas. Regardless, what is Irish socialism?

realy,then what would you call venezaula?

[Nijinsky]

realy,then what would you call venezaula?

A Country

[Vox Populi]

realy,then what would you call venezaula?At least spell it correctly.

It's a capitalist country.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

At least spell it correctly.

It's a capitalist country.

i think Hugo Chavez would disagree with you there.

[Vox Populi]

i think Hugo Chavez would disagree with you there.No he wouldn't. Chavez doesn't claim Venezuela is Socialist.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

is hugo chavez a socialist,is hugo chavez the president of venezuela.

[Vox Populi]

Venezuela is not a Socialist country, nor does anyone claim Venezuela is, not even Chavez. The working class will still need to overthrow the bourgeoisie and assume ownership of the means of production.

[quirk]

Venezuela is not a Socialist country, nor does anyone claim Venezuela is, not even Chavez. The working class will still need to overthrow the bourgeoisie and assume ownership of the means of production.

I think many people do in fact claim (wrongly) that Venezuela is socialist. Indeed I have had arguments on this board with people about it, for example here:

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3230&highlight=venezuela&page=2

[liam]

is hugo chavez a socialist,is hugo chavez the president of venezuela.

By that logic, Spain is a Socialist country.