Republican Response to Mr O'Caolain's statement in leinster house

[quirk]

It comes as no surprise to Republicans that Mr O'Caolain and his party have been indulging in Spin and political side stepping when faced with uncomfortable questions as to the existence of the Provisional IRA Army Council as produced to them in Leinster house on the 6th of March..
We would like to ask Mr O’ Caolain as to why the PIRA army council would act as a bulwark to Republican Groups?

If as has been claimed that the PIRA’s war is over and are determined to achieve their goals by “peaceful and purely democratic means” then what measures will they take?

If as he suggests that Republicanism is advancing why as a self confessed republican and member of a “republican” party would he attempt to contain it and espouses the very undemocratic nature of politics and its worse manifestation in British rule in Ireland.

We regard his patronisation and ignorance of Republicans as wholly typical of the way his party has treated the Republican grass roots in their objection of the British Police and the attack on Irish Sovereignty by the British government and with the ever growing level of support for Republican Separatism we will expect to hear a lot more of this in the coming months in advance of Policing and Justice power being devolved to Stormont.

Republicans also note his collusion with members of the southern political establishment in their united aim of being a bulwark to the republican advance and is this a disguised nod to the type of treatment republicans have endured from the same establishment in the past?

Republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr O Caolain and his Party.

Monaghan 32 County Sovereignty Movement.
P.R.O
Patrick Mc Kenna.

http://monaghan32csm.blogspot.com/

[Seabird]

Yep, republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr McKenna and his group.

[Jim]

Yep, republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr McKenna and his group.

Can you actually address our p.r.o's statement instead of making childish comments?

[Seabird]

Jim,

While you may have found my comment childish, I found McKenna's article to be nothing more than a stab at the RA and Mr. O'Caolain. What exactly does he mean "no surprise to Republicans"? Who exactly are these republicans, is he speaking on behalf of all republicans or the couple of hundred that support the 32CSM? Has he left we SF members or our supporters out of this equation for republicans or does he include us in his analysis? Did he take a poll and has the results to this? Or is he offering a fruitless opinion of what he feels as an individual?

We regard his patronisation and ignorance of Republicans as wholly typical of the way his party has treated the Republican grass roots in their objection of the British Police and the attack on Irish Sovereignty by the British government and with the ever growing level of support for Republican Separatism we will expect to hear a lot more of this in the coming months in advance of Policing and Justice power being devolved to Stormont.

ignorance of republicans? Who is this grassroots he speaks of, you mean the thousands of SF members and supporters, most that REALLY fought the war or is he talking about the small number of grassroot activist that support the 32CSM? You see his article is unclear to the meaasge he is purportedly delivering. I suggest Mr. Kenna clarify his writings so people such as myself can refrain from offering an opinion that is seen as childish by his followers.

As for the AC, they are still here you know! And as I stated in my original post no matter how childish you deem it. . . "Yep, republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr McKenna and his group."

[scarface]

It comes as no surprise to Republicans that Mr O'Caolain and his party have been indulging in Spin and political side stepping when faced with uncomfortable questions as to the existence of the Provisional IRA Army Council as produced to them in Leinster house on the 6th of March..
We would like to ask Mr O’ Caolain as to why the PIRA army council would act as a bulwark to Republican Groups?

If as has been claimed that the PIRA’s war is over and are determined to achieve their goals by “peaceful and purely democratic means” then what measures will they take?

If as he suggests that Republicanism is advancing why as a self confessed republican and member of a “republican” party would he attempt to contain it and espouses the very undemocratic nature of politics and its worse manifestation in British rule in Ireland.

We regard his patronisation and ignorance of Republicans as wholly typical of the way his party has treated the Republican grass roots in their objection of the British Police and the attack on Irish Sovereignty by the British government and with the ever growing level of support for Republican Separatism we will expect to hear a lot more of this in the coming months in advance of Policing and Justice power being devolved to Stormont.

Republicans also note his collusion with members of the southern political establishment in their united aim of being a bulwark to the republican advance and is this a disguised nod to the type of treatment republicans have endured from the same establishment in the past?

Republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr O Caolain and his Party.

Monaghan 32 County Sovereignty Movement.
P.R.O
Patrick Mc Kenna.

http://monaghan32csm.blogspot.com/

I wonder what O'Caolain meant by 'bulwark'? were they acting as a 'bulwark' when they murdered Jo Jo O'Connor? It's all very confusing i mean the provos say that the IRA and the RIRA are insignificant but then they say the PIRA AC has to exist to act as a 'bulwark' against both organisations. I for one can't see any reason for the PIRA AC's existence.

[Seabird]

Who are you talking about when you say the IRA because we all know that the IRA are the provisionals but from what you are saying it is a different group.

[scarface]

Who are you talking about when you say the IRA because we all know that the IRA are the provisionals but from what you are saying it is a different group.

Look you can either answer the post or go over the whole who is the IRA thing again I believe the CIRA is the IRA and you believe the PIRA is the IRA right can we leave it at that? now will you address the whole post?

[Jim]

While you may have found my comment childish,

Yes i do.

I found McKenna's article to be nothing more than a stab at the RA and Mr. O'Caolain.

The statement deals with exactly what o caolain said in leinster house.Not a stab against anyone.

What exactly does he mean "no surprise to Republicans"?

Exactly that.

Who exactly are these republicans, is he speaking on behalf of all republicans or the couple hundred that support the 32CSM?

Why would you be concerned if you believe we only have a couple of hundred supporters?
He was referring to Republicans and not supporters of the British Police etc.
If we didnt regard the stoops and fianna fail as republicans in the past for supporting the british police,why should we regard your party as republicans.
Its all well and good for your people to refer to us as micro groups and dissidents and yet when we are consistent in our beliefs in so far as supporting british law is not republican you's get hysterical.

You see his article is unclear to the meaasge he is purportedly delivering.

The statement is crystal clear on the message it is delivering specifically about what o caolain said in leinster house,it was not unlike you referring to numbers of republicans or anything else.
why cant you address the statement instead of trying to nit pick?
Personally i couldnt give two shiney ****es how the provos interpreted this message no more than i would for fianna fail supporters or fine gael supporters,most of provos will have interpreted it correctly as a lot of them are quite intelligent.


As for the AC, they are still here you know!

Im sure you'll sleep more soundly tonight,they provisional ira army council as admitted by o caolain (which is what the statement was about) is acting as a bulwark against republican groups.
A provo army council which is supposed to be in a new mode and who's political leaders support the rule of law in both jurisdictions.

How do you think they will act as a bulwark to to republican groups?send them letters with toffee perhaps??

And as I stated in my original post no matter how childish you deem it. . . "Yep, republicanism is advancing and will continue to do so irrespective of Mr McKenna and his group."

O caolain said in his speech that the provo ac was to defend against the advance of "dissident republicanism".He also admitted the widely known fact that republican groups have grown.His words.
This growth and advance had nothing to do with him or his party and its down to the hard work of our members and supporters.

most that REALLY fought the war

Dont talk ****e,Did you fight the war?A lot of shinners fought the war which is true but to say most of them is quite incorrect.
Some of our members fought in the war,but should that allow them any more of a say than people who didnt?

I wouldnt make a big deal about the 1969-97 campaign considering how it was lost.

[Seabird]

Jim,

The statement deals with exactly what o caolain said in leinster house.Not a stab against anyone.

No actually it doesn't, it is his opinion, are you begrudging my right to not agree with him?

What exactly does he mean "no surprise to Republicans"?
Exactly that.

Well I am a republican, my comrades are republicans is he speaking on our behalf? Who gave him that right, I surely did not.

Why would you be concerned if you believe we only have a couple of hundred supporters?

Not concerned just pointing out a clear fact!


He was referring to Republicans and not supporters of the British Police etc.

Ahhh here we go. . . the truth to the madness. . . and who exactly supports the british police? Not me! Not SF!

If we didnt regard the stoops and fianna fail as republicans in the past for supporting the british police,why should we regard your party as republicans.

At the end of the day does your opinion matter? Not really so don't be so stuck on yerself, does Mr. Kenna's. . no at all. Do you think your attitude will stop us from moving forward? You don't have to regard us as republicans, WE KNOW WE ARE REPUBLICANS so plz just get over it.

Its all well and good for your people to refer to us as micro groups and dissidents and yet when we are consistent in our beliefs in so far as supporting british law is not republican you's get hysterical.

No we don't get hysterical, we just get tired of the same ole song and dance, don't yous know a different tune ffs? How about doing the hard work and stop yer belly aching about SF.



Im sure you'll sleep more soundly tonight,they provisional ira army council as admitted by o caolain (which is what the statement was about) is acting as a bulwark against republican groups.
A provo army council which is supposed to be in a new mode and who's political leaders support the rule of law in both jurisdictions.

How do you think they will act as a bulwark to to republican groups?send them letters with toffee perhaps??

I really don't know, they haven't called on me as of yet for advice.


Dont talk ****e,Did you fight the war?A lot of shinners fought the war which is true but to say most of them is quite incorrect.
Some of our members fought in the war,but should that allow them any more of a say than people who didnt?

I wouldnt make a big deal about the 1969-97 campaign considering how it was lost.

No yous run around attempting to recruit very young men and women or absolute idiots such as elle and Bear. Just what for? To further an armed campaign or to solicite funds for your movement that does what? Absolutely nothing but send out statements such as McKenna's to attack the very ones that are doing the hardwork. What exactly is your objective here?

I know some of your members and can name a few who REFUSED to go back into active service after out of prison yet when the ceasefire was called and the GFA was in place they THEN decided to speak out. Wonder if it made em feel all comfy and cozy knowing they wouldn't have to pick up a gun, yet now they encourage our young oh the flippin irony.

We don't need you to make a big deal out the WAR, it was historically written in the books as a big deal, so what weight does your opinion have at the end of the day. . . ahhhhh none eh? LOL

[Jim]

No actually it doesn't, it is his opinion, are you begrudging my right to not agree with him?


It deals with what o caolain said ffs,have you read what he said?

You have a right not to agree with him but you havent any right to twist the statement.

Well I am a republican, my comrades are republicans is he speaking on our behalf? Who gave him that right, I surely did not.


I and im sure our p.r.o couldnt give a fiddlers.Do your party leadership care about fianna failers who also say they are republican crying the same as you are?Of course not.

Not concerned just pointing out a clear fact!


To prove what exactly?

Ahhh here we go. . . the truth to the madness. . . and who exactly supports the british police? Not me! Not SF!


Your very naieve arent you?They support the British laws that govern stormont and the ruc/psni uphold the same laws,

At the end of the day does your opinion matter? Not really so don't be so stuck on yerself, does Mr. Kenna's. . no at all.

So why are you commenting on it then??Why dont you answer my question as to why should we regard the provos as republican when we didnt regard the stoops or fianna fail as republican for doing the same things in the past?

Do you think your attitude will stop us from moving forward?

What has that to do with our p.r.o statement?He or myself made no reference to the provisionals moving in any direction.Address what was said if you have to.

You don't have to regard us as republicans, WE KNOW WE ARE REPUBLICANS so plz just get over it.

Considering you need to write it in capitals it must be a sore issue.At the end of the day the reason your being so tetchy is because it sticks in your craw that people are republican and have no assiociation with your movement.

In the end yourselfs and rsf have that in common,its either your way or no way.

No we don't get hysterical,

Incorrect as evidence by your last couple of posts.

don't yous know a different tune ffs?

If republicans had not of condemned fianna fail from their inception we'd be all under berties thumb today,we will condemn or criticise when we feel its necessary and it will always be justfied as our executive and publicity department would not allow anything less.

How about doing the hard work and stop yer belly aching about SF.


You dont know the meaning of the term hard work im quite sure,if you had any idea what we did and the harassment our members and supporters go through because of what we do you'd wouldnt be so petty.

I really don't know,


That is no surprise.

they haven't called on me as of yet for advice.


Why would they?

No yous run around attempting to recruit very young men and women or absolute idiots such as elle and Bear.

True colours being shown now.

Firstly have you a problem with our movement recruiting new members?

Secondly does your ageism and patronising excreta extent to your own people who recruit equally young men and women?

Thirdly what gives you the right to call anyone an idiot especially in a thread that has nothing to do with them or have no right to defend themselves.
Should those people be looking through all their posts to see what else you've been calling them?

If i were you i have a bit more manners and a lot more respect for people in future or it will come back to haunt you when your political party are not doing so well.

Lastly i find it amusing how your making a big deal about young people joining our movement and yet slag and denigrate others for having an older leadership such as rsf.

Just what for? To further an armed campaign

We are not a military organisation,as well you know.

or to solicite funds for your movement that does what?

Soliciting funds?Are you saying that we are criminals?

If our movement is doing nothing we wouldnt be increasing our membership and our support.You should be more concerned about what your doing?

Absolutely nothing but send out statements such as McKenna's to attack the very ones that are doing the hardwork. What exactly is your objective here?


O Caolain said the provisional ira were acting as a bulwark to republican,we wanted to know how.Simple as.You still have not addressed the statement only trying to derail the thread.

I know some of your members and can name a few who REFUSED to go back into active service after out of prison yet when the ceasefire was called and the GFA was in place they THEN decided to speak out.

I couldnt give a ****e,wtf has this to do with o caolains statement in leinster house.

Wonder if it made em feel all comfy and cozy knowing they wouldn't have to pick up a gun, yet now they encourage our young oh the flippin irony.


Take your personal disputes somewhere else.And stop trying to derail this thread.

If anyone has a problem with seabirds comments id like to ask on behalf of our cumann and our supporters to get in contact with the mods and leave this thread for debating the statement specifically for that.

We don't need you to make a big deal out the WAR,

You mentioned it for gods sake.

I personally have never made a big deal about the 1969-97 campaign as it was lost and what is more of a concern was the political and military capitulation that followed.

so what weight does your opinion have at the end of the day. . . ahhhhh none eh? LOL

Mature indeed,laughing at your own attempts at humour wont make them any more humourous.

[Clann]

Total refutation and rebuttal of all the absurd analysis and points ‘seabird’ made. Sinn fein posters on here are nothing but a mere embarrassment with their comments and posts riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions.
although i can say its humours me from time to time.

[ardonian]

Jim,



No actually it doesn't, it is his opinion, are you begrudging my right to not agree with him?


Well I am a republican, my comrades are republicans is he speaking on our behalf? Who gave him that right, I surely did not.



Not concerned just pointing out a clear fact!




Ahhh here we go. . . the truth to the madness. . . and who exactly supports the british police? Not me! Not SF!



At the end of the day does your opinion matter? Not really so don't be so stuck on yerself, does Mr. Kenna's. . no at all. Do you think your attitude will stop us from moving forward? You don't have to regard us as republicans, WE KNOW WE ARE REPUBLICANS so plz just get over it.



No we don't get hysterical, we just get tired of the same ole song and dance, don't yous know a different tune ffs? How about doing the hard work and stop yer belly aching about SF.





I really don't know, they haven't called on me as of yet for advice.




No yous run around attempting to recruit very young men and women or absolute idiots such as elle and Bear. Just what for? To further an armed campaign or to solicite funds for your movement that does what? Absolutely nothing but send out statements such as McKenna's to attack the very ones that are doing the hardwork. What exactly is your objective here?

I know some of your members and can name a few who REFUSED to go back into active service after out of prison yet when the ceasefire was called and the GFA was in place they THEN decided to speak out. Wonder if it made em feel all comfy and cozy knowing they wouldn't have to pick up a gun, yet now they encourage our young oh the flippin irony.

We don't need you to make a big deal out the WAR, it was historically written in the books as a big deal, so what weight does your opinion have at the end of the day. . . ahhhhh none eh? LOL

For this harden republican you seem to make yourself out to be you live in the states.And as for members refusing, Take yourself off what do you know keep to your computer love.

[Seabird]

ardonian love,

For this harden republican you seem to make yourself out to be you live in the states.And as for members refusing, Take yourself off what do you know keep to your computer love.

I am not trying to make myself out to be anything. Harden. . . maybe from life experiences. A republican, why yes I am. A Sinn Fein member. . .yes I am, now here is where you messed up. . . I do not live in America:biggrin: Thank you for your concern though.

[ardonian]

I like the way you through in im a member of $F as if that is any signifagance to the army or knowing anything thing about there business apart from your Idell Internet nonsense

[Jim]

Anyway the statement was carried by the local press and it will be interesting to see whether there is a response from O'Caolain.

[Liam Lynch]

Anyway the statement was carried by the local press and it will be interesting to see whether there is a response from O'Caolain.

Is there a link to it mo chara?

[Jim]

Is there a link to it mo chara?

I dont think they have a website but they printed our p.r.o's statement/response to what o caolain said in full on page 3 in the paper.

[Liam Lynch]

I dont think they have a website but they printed our p.r.o's statement/response to what o caolain said in full on page 3 in the paper.

What is the name of the local paper?

[East Tyrone]

the ever growing level of support for Republican Separatism we will expect to hear a lot more of this in the coming months in advance of Policing and Justice power being devolved to Stormont.


"Growing level of support for Republican Separatism", where? It must be due to all the stunning military successes of the renewed campaign the surreals announced a few weeks ago. What can we look forward to in the coming months, fresh semi-literate graffiti on the walls of a monaghan hayshed? Maybe another heroic blow for freedom in the pages of the Sunday World. I've heard of talking to hear yourself, but you lot take the biscuit; and you actually expect Caoimhin to comment on this demented dung, un-fkn-real!

[Jim]

What is the name of the local paper?

The Northern Standard.

[Ernie O'Malley]

"Growing level of support for Republican Separatism", where? It must be due to all the stunning military successes of the renewed campaign the surreals announced a few weeks ago. What can we look forward to in the coming months, fresh semi-literate graffiti on the walls of a monaghan hayshed? Maybe another heroic blow for freedom in the pages of the Sunday World. I've heard of talking to hear yourself, but you lot take the biscuit; and you actually expect Caoimhin to comment on this demented dung, un-fkn-real!


So you oppose Republican Seperatism?

[East Tyrone]

So you oppose Republican Seperatism?

Not at all, only the type of no-hoper-apologist psuedo-Republicanism espoused by the likes of the 32CSM and RSF. It was the phantom growth of which McKenna was blethering about.

[Ernie O'Malley]

"Growing level of support for Republican Separatism", where?

You cannot see Republican Seperatism and do not want to see it?

Thats how I read that.

[quirk]

Not at all, only the type of no-hoper-apologist psuedo-Republicanism espoused by the likes of the 32CSM and RSF. It was the phantom growth of which McKenna was blethering about.

Why is it psuedo republicanism? Would that not be a term better suited to those who have abandoned republican principles?

[Jim]

"Growing level of support for Republican Separatism", where?

You cannot see Republican Seperatism and do not want to see it?

Thats how I read that.

Of course that is the case ernie,the reason o caolain brought it up bulwarks was because of the growth of Republicanism and he advocates the pira to be the defence against the Republican advance.

Its all in his statement.

East tyrone knows this well and is determined to try and derail this thread and do you think having a discussion with an obviously irrational person will make him see sense?Of course not.

[Ernie O'Malley]

Of course that is the case ernie,the reason o caolain brought it up bulwarks was because of the growth of Republicanism and he advocates the pira to be the defence against the Republican advance.

Its all in his statement.

East tyrone knows this well and is determined to try and derail this thread and do you think having a discussion with an obviously irrational person will make him see sense?Of course not.

I agree Jim, but its just I never seen a full admition from a PSF'er of not wanting to Know about Seperatism and clearly stating they hope it goes away? Dont think it will somehow unless this bullwark can break concrete and the weapons buired in the concrete are very very very durable, even then O'Caolains sick little dream to see republicans punished wouldnt affect growth, as growth comes from truth and the truth has only began to be told!

[East Tyrone]

Why is it psuedo republicanism? Would that not be a term better suited to those who have abandoned republican principles?

The likes of the 32s and RSF are psuedo-Republican because they espouse Republicanism but actually thwart Republican goals, with their divisive and obstructionist posturings.

[quirk]

The likes of the 32s and RSF are psuedo-Republican because they espouse Republicanism but actually thwart Republican goals, with their divisive and obstructionist posturings.

and the ones who are advancing it in your opinion is the people who have abandoned republican principles. They are the true republicans.

[East Tyrone]

and the ones who are advancing it in your opinion is the people who have abandoned republican principles. They are the true republicans.

Sinn Féin are advancing the Republican position and they have not abandoned the core principles of Republicanism; they have merely altered their strategy, to pursue their Republican goals in a practicable and realistic manner.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

Sinn Féin are advancing the Republican position and they have not abandoned the core principles of Republicanism; they have merely altered their strategy, to pursue their Republican goals in a practicable and realistic manner.

There is a definite limit to how much Republicans can "alter their strategy" in order "to pursue their goals in a practicable and realistic manner" before Republican principles are compromised, diluted and forgotten. It is unfortunate, though not surprising, that you cannot see that.

[East Tyrone]

There is a definite limit to how much Republicans can "alter their strategy" in order "to pursue their goals in a practicable and realistic manner" before Republican principles are compromised, diluted and forgotten. It is unfortunate, though not surprising, that you cannot see that.

Coming from someone who advocates maiming and burying in bogs as an acceptable response to crime, I cannot really attach much credibilty to that statement.

[East Tyrone]

Sooo not biting.