Ireland and Wales

[David]

Hi!

I´m German and I´m very interested in Irish and Welsh history. I´d like to know what you Irish folks think about Irish/Welsh relationship? Is there any form of Pan-Celticism or is the disapproval of England the only thing these nations hav in common? I´ve already heard that Ireland and Wales are not so big friends as one might think...so, what do you think?

[JWRice]

Welcome David......as a newbie to this website I to would also like to know about Irish-Welsh relations.

[conghaileach]

If you're looking to find out about pan-Celticism, it's worthwhile to read up on the Celtic League (http://celticleague.net/). The biggest things that connect the various Celtic nations are culture and language. However, while Welsh and Irish are both Celtic languages, the similarity pretty much ends there. Welsh is a P-Celtic language while Irish is a Q-Celtic language.

[Zaga95]

Hi, its something I would like to know more about also.
What I do know is that the IRA, in the 60s before they needed them the most (to protect themselves), sold most of their weapons, ammo etc... to Welsh Nationalists as they didnt see any potential in the continuation of the armed struggle in Ireland. I wonder what the welsh did with the guns cus Ive never heard of any risings in Cardiff or the like too recently!

Apart from that, dunno.

[conghaileach]

There was a group called the Free Wales Army that did a bit during the 1960s. There's a wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Wales_Army) with a bit, really not much, about them.

[David]

I heard, too, that there exists a Welsh Republican Army but they were not successful at all. I spent a week in South Wales last year and I asked a few people there what they think about Ireland, and they said, that ireland is perhaps a bit behind the times...I think, though I am an ardent admirer of the Welsh language(I study Celtic languages) and of the Welsh culture, I think, that Wales is far more integrated in Great Britain than Scotland,Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, it is quite telling, that when someone wanted to look up Wales in a 19th century encyclopaedia, he would get ->England.??? And the Welsh are quite proud of their achievements within this empire, they played a decisive role for their coal fuelled the ships of the British Navy!!!
In general, I´d say that the Welsh/Irish relationship is not as bad as the Scottish/Irish. It is difficult to make such generalizations but one has to bear in mind that a lot of Scottish people came to Ireland in the times of the Plantations! :hmmm:

[Zaga95]

In general, I´d say that the Welsh/Irish relationship is not as bad as the Scottish/Irish. It is difficult to make such generalizations but one has to bear in mind that a lot of Scottish people came to Ireland in the times of the Plantations! :hmmm:

Yes but Irish/Welsh relations are pretty much non-existent whereas in Scotland, although there are alot negative feelings between the two countries, there are also alot of strong, built up, positive relations existing between the two.

[greenboy1916]

I've seen numerous groups on many networking websites with pan-Celtic leagues that included members in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany in France. The only problem with these groups is that despite a deep seated regional pride, and an understanding of a difference in the Celtic cultures and the cultures of the lands that rule them, only Ireland and Scotland have suffered recent set backs and oppression and ever since the Troubles the state of the Irish Republic itself has gotten better thus people are less likely to rise due to oppression to their cousins in the North because, Hell at least they dont have to deal with it right?
It is true that the Welsh have a great national pride but they have become quite anglicized not so much as the Cornish but definitely on the way.

[David]

at least Welsh is the only Celtic language that has a good prospect of surviving though the language itself is pretty anglicized. Irish,Scottish and Breton have not much time left. There are hardly any fluent speakers left.

[greenboy1916]

Irish gaelic is still well alive and although not nationally spoken as a first language it certainly is taught in schools and in the west of the country there are areas where gaelic is THE language spoken as for Scots or Manx i cant say

[fiannanahalba]

Irish gaelic is still well alive and although not nationally spoken as a first language it certainly is taught in schools and in the west of the country there are areas where gaelic is THE language spoken as for Scots or Manx i cant say



Scottish is down to just over 60,000 native speakers and is urgently needing more promotion and protection. Thankfully the number of learners is increasing and its promotion throughout the schools and through the broadcasting mediums is improving under the nationalist SNP Scottish Government.

Lessons from the experiences of both Irish and Welsh need to be learned from.

[kildare brigade]

im hearing of a group calling themselfs WRA (welseh republican army) ..anyone else hear anyting ??

[David]

Scottish is down to just over 60,000 native speakers and is urgently needing more promotion and protection. Thankfully the number of learners is increasing and its promotion throughout the schools and through the broadcasting mediums is improving under the nationalist SNP Scottish Government.

Lessons from the experiences of both Irish and Welsh need to be learned from.

This may be true, but native speakers in Irish and Scottish are decreasing! Unfortunately ther eis not much hope that this will change in the future. Welsh has the best chances to survive but I think it is just a matter of time till there are no native speakers left. Anglicization is not reversible! My professor told me that though Irish is taught at school people are not sufficiently eager to learn the language and that tehre are at best 20,000 fluent or native speakers of Irish speakers left...it is a sad development though!

[kildare brigade]

im after finding a welsh republican army web page and he/she has nothing written about them most of his/her page is about the IRA

[tireoghan]

I have never heard of any real realtionship with Wales.

And also to write Gaeilge off as a dying language is not the whole picture. There have never been as many people leraning Irish on the Island as there has been for hundreds of years.

[Seán1798]

I have never heard of any real realtionship with Wales.

And also to write Gaeilge off as a dying language is not the whole picture. There have never been as many people leraning Irish on the Island as there has been for hundreds of years.

But they are really just learning English translated back into Irish, the phrasing of the living tounge and the mind that went with it is sadly too far gone.

[congress3]

Although I think we are probably drifting a bit of topic from the original question. I dont think that Irish is a dying language its never ever going to be wiped out because of being a subject taught in school and I know most of the people who do well in it at higher level in the leaving cert tend to be almost if not fluent.
But back to original point I think that the welsh are a lap dog to the english and I always have a general dislike to any country who willingly accepts the rule of another. I would consider welsh-english the same thing.
And their bloody accents drive me crazy:icon_laugh:

[tireoghan]

But they are really just learning English translated back into Irish, the phrasing of the living tounge and the mind that went with it is sadly too far gone.

What makes you think that?

[tireoghan]

Although I think we are probably drifting a bit of topic from the original question. I dont think that Irish is a dying language its never ever going to be wiped out because of being a subject taught in school and I know most of the people who do well in it at higher level in the leaving cert tend to be almost if not fluent.
But back to original point I think that the welsh are a lap dog to the english and I always have a general dislike to any country who willingly accepts the rule of another. I would consider welsh-english the same thing.
And their bloody accents drive me crazy:icon_laugh:

Do you have a general dislike for the Irish who partake in British orientated parliaments in Ireland?:whistle:

[Seán1798]

What makes you think that?

Linguistics particularly semiotics and also the very old people in Connemara. Sure it isn't even written as it was never mind spoken. To survive a language needs to be living and not on life support.

What happened here with the language would have happened in Wales as well but for the fact that they had priests who cared for them.

[Seán1798]

Although I think we are probably drifting a bit of topic from the original question. I dont think that Irish is a dying language its never ever going to be wiped out because of being a subject taught in school and I know most of the people who do well in it at higher level in the leaving cert tend to be almost if not fluent.
But back to original point I think that the welsh are a lap dog to the english and I always have a general dislike to any country who willingly accepts the rule of another. I would consider welsh-english the same thing.
And their bloody accents drive me crazy:icon_laugh:

It won't ever be wiped out because it's been on life support since the Victorian era. The ones who tend to be fluent to leaving cert standard do not think or dream in it. The fact is that English is the native tounge of the vast majority of Irish people and it will remain the language they learn from birth.

If you think that the Welsh are lapdogs to the English then you do not know the history of Wales or the sorry story of how it was brought under control.

[tireoghan]

Linguistics particularly semiotics and also the very old people in Connemara. Sure it isn't even written as it was never mind spoken. To survive a language needs to be living and not on life support.

What happened here with the language would have happened in Wales as well but for the fact that they had priests who cared for them.

No language ever stays the same...language evolves...take english for example - 100 years ago people in England spoke differently, with different grammar than they do now. Irish is an evolving langauge with many different dialects and it is changing. There are more young people speaking the langauge now than ever before...the majority of those that attend Irish medium education are taught English through the Irish language and speak Irish to each other all the time...I would say that it is their first language.

Of course realistically the Irish langugae will never become the dominant language in the world economic arena due to trading and international commerce involving Ireland; but at home and social activities there is a very real possibilitiy that down the line the Irish language will come back into its own and that can only be a good thing IMO.

[Free Wales Army]

Yma o Hyd - Were still here.


Welsh nationalism has been opressed by the English, unfortunatly we have to border them, but despite Taffy prefering to fight for others, there's plenty of us who will fight for a free wales.

There has been connections over the years, Frongoch was the first internment camp, where the IRA first schooled each other in the name of a free Ireland, Michale Collins etc. The North Walians smuggled food and other goods to the men behind the wire, the IRA in turn provided guns to the Welsh Nationalists during the 60s, when an uprising was very strong, after a number of Welsh valleys were flooded to provide water to Liverpool and Birmingham.

They also hit a number of small targets during a bombing campaign, carried of by MAC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudiad_Amddiffyn_Cymru
But the leaders were soon imprisoned and the campaign slowed down dramatically


There is a number of good reads out there, which any nationalist would find interesting

http://www.cayo-evans.com/


There is strong links between the Cornish and Welsh nationalists at present, and strong numbers attend events, with a similar aim. There are numerous active groups around at the moment, certainly not to the extent of an armed struggle, but causing enough problems to be recognised.

Diolch.

[Red Revolutionary]

Interesting.
Read something on them before.
Whats the main Welsh Nationalist Political Party?

[Free Wales Army]

Interesting.
Read something on them before.
Whats the main Welsh Nationalist Political Party?


Plaid Cymru - http://www.plaidcymru.org/content.php?lID=1

Many of there members policies are first class, others are to focussed on westminister and there careers, but still a voice i suppose. :)