Arthur Griffith

[MickCollins4ever]

Being March 31st, I thought a small post remembering the birth of Arthur Griffith, to whom we owe so much, was in order.

Verónica

"In Arthur Griffith there is a mighty force in Ireland. He has none of the wildness of some I could name. Instead there is an abundance of wisdom and an awareness of things which are Ireland." - Michael Collins.

Nicely put, Mick!

[RisenBelfast]

Aye, sure that dual-monarchy thing was a great idea.

[robertemmett]

griffith the monarchist and free stater?

[LDN_Irish]

Don't forget anti-semite.

[FTA69]

Griffith was always a reluctant Republican, he was first and foremost a nationalist; in other words all he wanted was independence (or a measure of it) for Ireland and had no concerns about the barbaric social conditions which existed in Ireland at the time. At that point we were one of the poorest countries in Europe. When the destitute workers went on strike in 1913 Griffith actually called for the British Army to be deployed in support of Martin Murphy and the rest of the Dublin business class.

His support was not for "the ownership of Ireland by the people of Ireland", nor was it for the "cherishing of all the children of the nation equally". It was for the strong farmer, the publican, the shopkeeper, the factory owner; not the ordinary worker or farmer in Ireland. The man signed the Treaty in 1922, and enthusiastically accepted British weapons for to be used on Republicans.

I have no admiration for him whatsoever.

[scarface]

Being March 31st, I thought a small post remembering the birth of Arthur Griffith, to whom we owe so much, was in order.

Verónica

"In Arthur Griffith there is a mighty force in Ireland. He has none of the wildness of some I could name. Instead there is an abundance of wisdom and an awareness of things which are Ireland." - Michael Collins.

Nicely put, Mick!

It's a terrible pity that Arthur Griffith didn't get the same treatment Collins got

[Jim]

It's a terrible pity that Arthur Griffith didn't get the same treatment Collins got

Not really to be honest considering collins got a rifle shot to the head which was quick in comparison to what happened to the lads that were shelled in the four courts of whom griffith played a major part.

[MickCollins4ever]

I was stating the fact that he is considered the "founder" of SF, nothing more. It can be said that eventually it'd have been done by someone else, but the fact is he was the first who coined the term, if i'm not mistaken.
BTW, the inverted commas are just because I'm not sure of the spelling...Just in case :eusa_shifty:
Verónica

[robertemmett]

the pre 1916 rising Sinn fein was a different animal than one that came after it. i cant think of any other senior post 16 leader.. like collins, brugha, de valera etc that where Sinn fein before the rising, with the exception of griffith.

where the IRB inflitrated in to sf before 1916 like they were in the Irish Volunteers?

[cillmantain]

Griffith was instrumental in shaping modern Ireland. At the time, some people thought the 'dual monarchy thing WAS aq great idea' and many people supported Griffith's subsequent stance... more, actually than supported the anti-treaty side. Say what you like... and 20-20 hindsight is a great thing... but during his lifetime Griffith did enjoy support and was a founding father of our country. What happened after was another story, not for this thread.

[broche]

where the IRB inflitrated in to sf before 1916 like they were in the Irish Volunteers

don't think so, Sinn Fein were fairly peripheral up until the 1916 Rising, don't think they would have served any meangingful purpose to the IRB

[conghaileach]

Say what you like... and 20-20 hindsight is a great thing... but during his lifetime Griffith did enjoy support and was a founding father of our country. What happened after was another story, not for this thread.
Don't you mean founding father of the Free State? The country is much older than Arthur Griffith.

[conghaileach]

where the IRB inflitrated in to sf before 1916 like they were in the Irish Volunteers?

I'm not sure if the IRB infiltrated SF, but there were IRB members who were also in SF. Éamonn Ceannt, for example, who condemned Griffiths' demand that the British Army be brought in against locked-out and striking workers in 1913.

[cillmantain]

Don't you mean founding father of the Free State? The country is much older than Arthur Griffith.

Whatever way you put it and whatever language you use, Griffith did play a part in shaping the idealogy of Irish republicanism. By 'our country' I mean Ireland. The country may be older than Griffith, but to use that analagy, no one was a founding father of anywhere; we're back to prehistoric times and life evolving from the sea! Perhaps I should have said 'modern Ireland'?

[liam]

Whatever way you put it and whatever language you use, Griffith did play a part in shaping the idealogy of Irish republicanism. By 'our country' I mean Ireland. The country may be older than Griffith, but to use that analagy, no one was a founding father of anywhere; we're back to prehistoric times and life evolving from the sea! Perhaps I should have said 'modern Ireland'?

Perhaps you should have said the Free State

[quirk]

Moved to history.

[conghaileach]

Whatever way you put it and whatever language you use, Griffith did play a part in shaping the idealogy of Irish republicanism.

Only in the way an enemy of Irish republicanism could have an influence on the ideology.