Former Prominent Member of Derry Sinn Fein Joins 32CSM

[quirk]

STATEMENT 03/APRIL/2008

32 COUNTY SOVEREIGNTY MOVEMENT DERRY CITY

The 32CSM welcomes a former prominent member of Derry Sinn Fein to our ranks, Seamus Breslin, who has been a republican all his adult life and is well known for his dedicated community work in the Shantallow area. Sheamus spoke at the recent special Ard Fheis on policing in Dublin.
After over 40 years in the Provisional Movement Seamus became disillusioned with the current SF strategy and he believes that the leadership is leading the grassroots up the wrong path. Seamus is dedicating himself to fighting anti social behaviour, drug dealing and establishing a 32csm Cumann in the greater Shantallow area, he has also urged other true republicans to join him.

Derry 32csm Secretary

Ciaran Boyle.

STATEMENT ENDS

www.derry32.blogspot.com

[quirk]

STATEMENT 4/APRIL/2008

32 COUNTY SOVEREIGNTY MOVEMENT, DERRY CITY

Firstly I would like to wish the four Derry men who are being interned in Portlaoise Gaol all the best of luck.

In a recent visit to Maghaberry Prison to see a republican prisoner my son was searched four times on entry, photographed five times and had his fingerprints taken before being able to see his friend. A sniffer dog was also called in and if this animal sits down beside you, your visit is terminated. These draconian practices only exist for republican visits.

Republican POWs are not criminals, but they are in the eyes of the occupation. Political status was signed away in the terms of the Good Friday agreement in 1998. This is not what Bobby Sands and his nine brave comrades died for. The Good Friday agreement has criminalized republicanism; recently in Derry City men arrested under the ‘terrorism’ act were shown a Bobby Sands book wrapped up in an evidence bag. By attempting to criminalize so called ‘dissidents’ Britain has criminated the entire republican family including the provisional grassroots. It recently became evident to me that the current Sinn Fein Strategy had been grossly underpinned by the Brits. Britain will never tolerate republicanism however it will tolerate those who subvert to its position.

After being a member of Sinn Fein my entire adult life, I decided to leave the party. It was not an easy decision for me to make. However, I felt that the provisional leadership was leading us up the wrong path. Irish republican history is littered with repealist come reformists. I spoke at the recent special Ard Fheis on policing last year, and from that day to this Sinn Fein is incapable of giving me an example of the accountability the grassroots had been promised. In recent weeks the RUC/PSNI have beaten the children of Creggan black and blue, humiliated children as young as eight by photographing them while noting their names to the outrage of their parents. The people of Derry had given the PSNI a chance and they have failed to live up to its promise of change. Policing boards have been exposed as a cosmetic propaganda exercise aimed at hoodwinking republicans into supporting the RUC. If only the RUC/PSNI tackled the current drug scourge that is destroying my Shantallow homeland with the same vigor and determination as they do with dignified republican commemorations’ then maybe they could gain a little trust. Drug dealing is a civic police issue however the RUC/PSNI only react to political issues related to republicanism.

Since leaving Sinn Fein with over 40 years behind me, I have recently joined the 32 County Sovereignty Movement and they have given me a very warm welcome. I would urge all disillusioned Shantallow republicans to contact me for advice; I can confirm that a new Cumann will be established in the greater Shantallow area very soon, we will be dedicated to upholding the republic while tackling anti social behavior and the drug scourge head on.

Seamus Breslin. Derry 32csm


http://www.derry32.blogspot.com/

[ciaranxavier]

:eusa_clap::eusa_clap:

[Jim]

It takes a lot of courage and resolve to leave the party that you've served for years and join another movement and its great to see that the good work done in derry is getting results.
long may it continue.

[RisenBelfast]

This must be a real blow to Derry SF and the party in general, not only did he speak in favour of the PSNI but he was then quoted by Adams in his final appeal to the Ard Fheis.

[boiler-1888]

Gerry Adams Special Ard Fhies 2007

"It is about building equality - not just in the north - but everywhere in cities and towns all across this state and throughout rural Ireland.

Seamus Breslin from Doire said what the establishment feared was the wee man from the Bogside or the Falls Road going on to the Policing Boards.

Seamus is right but what the establishment fears even more than the wee man are the wee women, not just from the Bogside or the Falls but from Dublin Central, from Cavan Monaghan from the Cobh of Cork, from the west and the sunny south east - not just on policing boards but on decision making structures throughout Ireland."

http://www.sinnfeinonline.com/news/3188

[robertemmett]

Gerry Adams Special Ard Fhies 2007

"It is about building equality - not just in the north - but everywhere in cities and towns all across this state and throughout rural Ireland.

Seamus Breslin from Doire said what the establishment feared was the wee man from the Bogside or the Falls Road going on to the Policing Boards.

Seamus is right but what the establishment fears even more than the wee man are the wee women, not just from the Bogside or the Falls but from Dublin Central, from Cavan Monaghan from the Cobh of Cork, from the west and the sunny south east - not just on policing boards but on decision making structures throughout Ireland."

http://www.sinnfeinonline.com/news/3188

oops gerry

[boiler-1888]

wonder how long that link will last?

[robertemmett]

it will be gone like squinter's article.

[Mellows1922]

oops gerry

oops what ? The content of what Adams and Breslin said is still 100% accurate.

If Seamus has changed his view that the establishment don't fear what he thought they did fear a year ago is entirely his perogative and his decision to make, it doesn't make what he said at the time any less valid or accurate.

[RisenBelfast]

What i find interesting is that Republicans of his pedigree, even when they leave SF late, so easily step back to the beliefs and positions that underpin the struggle.

That's why I hate to see hostility to those still part of that organisation. There are a lot of good people there just trying to find their way out of the instituitionalisationism.

[Mellows1922]

What i find interesting is that Republicans of his pedigree, even when they leave SF late, so easily step back to the beliefs and positions that underpin the struggle.

That's why I hate to see hostility to those still part of that organisation. There are a lot of good people there just trying to find their way out of the instituitionalisation.

Jesus, could you be any more patronising ?

[Carlos McJackle]

Jesus, could you be any more patronising ?


its ok , we understand your dilemma and may even forgive you, some day , when you come to your senses . Ssshhh now.its alright


:eusa_dance:

[RisenBelfast]

Patronising? Eh?

I think you may be being a tad sensitive.

The man made a hard decision, like others. Do you have a problem with it?

[Dúiche Néill]

Patronising? Eh?

I think you may be being a tad sensitive.

The man made a hard decision, like others. Do you have a problem with it?

I think the problem may be more with your condescending attitude than with the man's personal decision. There are plenty of good Republicans both within and without Sinn Féin. Many of the same good Republicans are committed to the direction that Sinn Féin is following and will continue to work within party structures. Some will not, that's politics and everyone should follow what they think is right. I don't look down on those who have left the party, as long as they're not advocating militarism and you shouldn't look down on those who remain in the party.

[Carlos McJackle]

[QUOTE]I think the problem may be more with your condescending attitude than with the man's personal decision. There are plenty of good Republicans both within and without Sinn Féin. Many of the same good Republicans are committed to the direction that Sinn Féin is following and will continue to work within party structures. Some will not, that's politics and everyone should follow what they think is right.

how does that square with your partys postion that they and their paramilitary associates are a necessary bulwark against dissent ? Do you dissent from that position ?

I don't look down on those who have left the party, as long as they're not advocating militarism

so you just look down on some people who leave your party

and you shouldn't look down on those who remain in the party.

but as you admit to looking down on some people who left your party why are you annoyed that some people look down on your party in return ?

[Dúiche Néill]

how does that square with your partys postion that they and their paramilitary associates are a necessary bulwark against dissent ? Do you dissent from that position ?
You're talking about remarks made about the IRA AC, this debate is about people leaving Sinn Féin.


so you just look down on some people who leave your party

but as you admit to looking down on some people who left your party why are you annoyed that some people look down on your party in return ?

I oppose those who advocate or support armed militancy, the phrase "looking down" on them wouldn't be really accurate and was only a reaction to the tone of the post that I was quoting.

[Mellows1922]

Patronising? Eh?

I think you may be being a tad sensitive.

The man made a hard decision, like others. Do you have a problem with it?

I have no problem with people leaving, I certainly would prefer everybody to stay and push the agenda forward, but each of us needs to do what we think is right.

What I have a problem with is the condescending attitude of "ah don't be too hostile to them, sure as soon as they get a little backbone they'll do the right thing and stand beside us troooo Republicans, don't blame them for being too weak to do what they believe is the right thing".

[wherenow]

Tá a lan phoblachtai fos i SF agus creideann siad go bhfuil SF ag dul i dtreo an sli ceart.

D'fhag poblachtai eile SF, sin e.

There are many long term republicans still in SF and they believe the party is attempting a new policy that they hope will be successful.

Some republicans have not agreed with this analysis and have left.

That's it.

Should supporters of SF start putting videos/statements up on this thread of long serving republicans that support the current SF strategy. Would that make SF more credible to anybody.

Time will tell if the SF strategy is successful and those who believe it is doomed to failure should get on with being acctive on the ground and preparing for the next stage in the struggle. I'm sure that is what Seamus Breslin will be doing and I doubt he will be simply sitting at a computer taking pot shots at other republicans.

[kev86]

So does seamus still support the desicion to join/support the RUC ?
Or has he changed his mind ?

[JPUTRA]

So does seamus still support the desicion to join/support the RUC ?
Or has he changed his mind ?

Was wondering that myself.

[Carlos McJackle]

Tá a lan phoblachtai fos i SF agus creideann siad go bhfuil SF ag dul i dtreo an sli ceart.

D'fhag poblachtai eile SF, sin e.

There are many long term republicans still in SF and they believe the party is attempting a new policy that they hope will be successful.

Some republicans have not agreed with this analysis and have left.

That's it.

Should supporters of SF start putting videos/statements up on this thread of long serving republicans that support the current SF strategy. Would that make SF more credible to anybody.

Time will tell if the SF strategy is successful and those who believe it is doomed to failure should get on with being acctive on the ground and preparing for the next stage in the struggle. I'm sure that is what Seamus Breslin will be doing and I doubt he will be simply sitting at a computer taking pot shots at other republicans.

hold on..are seriiously feckin telling republicans they shouldnt be posting on this forum ? That theyre wasting their time ? Why are you on it then ?

I also believe that if Marion Price for example came out and made a public statement in support of the Stormont treaty it would most definitely be posted by sinn fein members from corner of the blogosphere to another and then back again . indeed theyd be failing woefully in their duty to persue party startegy and defend it from its critics of they didnt . I dont for one minute believe the response from sinn fein would be " sure people leave parties al the time , its just politics" To suggest that would be the case is absolutely ridiculous and everyone knows it . Yet a different standard seems to be the view when the opposite occurs . However the facts are that defections from activists within the republican base seem to be going in one direction , that is away from the sinn fein strategy and structure , definitely not towards it .

[wherenow]

[QUOTE=Carlos McJackle;98252]hold on..are seriiously feckin telling republicans they shouldnt be posting on this forum ? That theyre wasting their time ? Why are you on it then ?

Cén fáth an bhfuil tu mar sin?

Why the agression here?

I am sick and tired on this forum of people having a go and each other in exactly the way you have had a go at me.

What i said was aimed at the people on this forum who seem more interested in attacking other republicans, than anything else. Yes, there is disagreement. Yes, I expect differing perspective to put across their case. It is the going over it again and again and again that get's me.

Yes, it is significant when a man of Breslin's standing leaves one group and joins another. My point is that the attitude of some people to this type of stuff gets on my nerves.

If you look back on my posts you will see I made similar comments attacking SF supporters for similar behaviour. I'm sure I put something up when some SF people attacked volunteers who fired volleys at a republican comemoration.

I'm in no way attacking Breslin on this thread, but do you not agree that some people seem to be here just to take pot shots at each other?

[Carlos McJackle]

I'm in no way attacking Breslin on this thread, but do you not agree that some people seem to be here just to take pot shots at each other?

I blieve there were a few people enaged in that activity , hence my own decision to take a leave of absence . But I also believe people just end up doing that sometimes whenever you have diametrically opposed views on certain matters and dont get too anoyed depending on the posters overall agenda.

[wherenow]

Cheapaim go mbeidh mé imithe go luath.

Yeah, think I might jack it in soon. Some of the negetive stuff is seriously fxcking me off.

[peonyrose]

Cheapaim go mbeidh mé imithe go luath.

Yeah, think I might jack it in soon. Some of the negetive stuff is seriously fxcking me off.

It would be a pity if you left. Your contributions are helpful to the debate.

And I like your drive to communicate in Irish.

[scarface]

Was wondering that myself.

It's strange that a man could support British policing in Ireland 6 months ago and not support it now and I also wonder how he squares his support for LH and Stormont with the 32csm?

[Dúiche Néill]

It's strange that a man could support British policing in Ireland 6 months ago and not support it now and I also wonder how he squares his support for LH and Stormont with the 32csm?

Do the 32s not recognise LH either, I know the RSF position but figured that seeing as they were founded by post '86 Ra men that they would.

[quirk]

Do the 32s not recognise LH either, I know the RSF position but figured that seeing as they were founded by post '86 Ra men that they would.

No the 32CSM do not recognise Leinster House. From our constitution:

1.(e). That partition is illegal

(f). That recognising the denial of national sovereignty to the Irish people through British occupation of part of the national territory; we hold that all administrations and assemblies purporting to act as lawful government for the Irish people, or otherwise functioning as partitionist entities, to be illegal under international law as they usurp Irish sovereignty.

[Dúiche Néill]

No the 32CSM do not recognise Leinster House. From our constitution:

1.(e). That partition is illegal

(f). That recognising the denial of national sovereignty to the Irish people through British occupation of part of the national territory; we hold that all administrations and assemblies purporting to act as lawful government for the Irish people, or otherwise functioning as partitionist entities, to be illegal under international law as they usurp Irish sovereignty.

Thanks for the clarification. Is that why you don't stand in elections then, because you would be constitutionally proscribed from taking seats?

[bigdoc]

good to see another republican wake up and smell the rotting coffee that is PSF. Looking forward to the New set up in Shanty.

[quirk]

It's strange that a man could support British policing in Ireland 6 months ago and not support it now and I also wonder how he squares his support for LH and Stormont with the 32csm?

People change their minds. This man supported this but seemed to have come to a realisation that it is not the way forward. He should be congratulated for admitting that he was wrong as this is a difficult thing to do.

I also don't think it is strange at all. Many Irish people have changed their minds like this. How many must have changed their minds after the 1916 rising? After 1981? Indeed if it is that strange for people to change their minds in such a way then what does that say for the future prospects of groups like the 32CSM and RSF because we will not achieve our goals with anything close to the numbers we have now. We are relying on many many people changing their minds in such a way.

[quirk]

Thanks for the clarification. Is that why you don't stand in elections then, because you would be constitutionally proscribed from taking seats?

No the election issue is another thing altogether. The above part of our constitution wouldn't prevent us taking seats in local councils however we do not stand in them.

[Dúiche Néill]

People change their minds. This man supported this but seemed to have come to a realisation that it is not the way forward. He should be congratulated for admitting that he was wrong as this is a difficult thing to do.

I also don't think it is strange at all. Many Irish people have changed their minds like this. How many must have changed their minds after the 1916 rising? After 1981? Indeed if it is that strange for people to change their minds in such a way then what does that say for the future prospects of groups like the 32CSM and RSF because we will not achieve our goals with anything close to the numbers we have now. We are relying on many many people changing their minds in such a way.

You are relying on a mass epiphany that would need to affect at least 80% of the population simultaneously. You don't recognise the governmental authorities in place so there would need to be a massive popularist revolution. It's very hard not to see this as being the product of hopelessly optomistic fantasy. Furthermore, any such revolution would necessitate the liquidation/gulagisation of the counter-revolutionaries, Unionists et al. I see no possibility of success in absence of unprecedented bloodshed, even if the monumentally, unlikely conditions existed.

[scarface]

People change their minds. This man supported this but seemed to have come to a realisation that it is not the way forward. He should be congratulated for admitting that he was wrong as this is a difficult thing to do.

I also don't think it is strange at all. Many Irish people have changed their minds like this. How many must have changed their minds after the 1916 rising? After 1981? Indeed if it is that strange for people to change their minds in such a way then what does that say for the future prospects of groups like the 32CSM and RSF because we will not achieve our goals with anything close to the numbers we have now. We are relying on many many people changing their minds in such a way.

I understand that we need people to change their minds but I just find it hard to believe that a man could compromise on so many core Republican principles and then go back on all of that but if he now truly believes that all of that was wrong then fair play to him

[quirk]

You are relying on a mass epiphany that would need to affect at least 80% of the population simultaneously. You don't recognise the governmental authorities in place so there would need to be a massive popularist revolution. It's very hard not to see this as being the product of hopelessly optomistic fantasy. Furthermore, any such revolution would necessitate the liquidation/gulagisation of the counter-revolutionaries, Unionists et al. I see no possibility of success in absence of unprecedented bloodshed, even if the monumentally, unlikely conditions existed.

Where did I speak of a mass epiphany rather than just people changing their minds? It has happened before so why cant it happen again?

[Dúiche Néill]

Where did I speak of a mass epiphany rather than just people changing their minds? It has happened before so why cant it happen again?

In order to bring down the southern state and northern statelet simultaneously, which would be a victory condition imperative, at least 80% of the people of Ireland would need to have changed their minds. For such a successsful transformation to occur it would have to be rapid so that it could not bee countered or contained. As such it is the stuff of fantasy.

[quirk]

In order to bring down the southern state and northern statelet simultaneously, which would be a victory condition imperative, at least 80% of the people of Ireland would need to have changed their minds. For such a successsful transformation to occur it would have to be rapid so that it could not bee countered or contained. As such it is the stuff of fantasy.

Was it a fantasy when the PIRA where trying to achieve this? I dont know where you seem to be getting that I was even talking about this issue. I was making the point that for us to achieve an Irish republic we will need more people to support us (I know you would disagree but I was making the point to scarface). Scarface would be of the same opinion yet he seemed suprised when one person changed their mind so how could he envision many people doing it.

[Mellows1922]

I understand that we need people to change their minds but I just find it hard to believe that a man could compromise on so many core Republican principles and then go back on all of that but if he now truly believes that all of that was wrong then fair play to him

That's the point though scarface, he didn't compromise any Republican principles, he has clearly had a change in heart as to what strategy he favours though.

[on the one road]

I blieve there were a few people enaged in that activity , hence my own decision to take a leave of absence . But I also believe people just end up doing that sometimes whenever you have diametrically opposed views on certain matters and dont get too anoyed depending on the posters overall agenda.

people on this board don't have diametricly oppossed views, they disagree on symantics.

sit down and have a conversation with someone who supports the principle of monarchy or an imperialist who believes in manifest destiney and then you'll know the meaning of the word

[scarface]

That's the point though scarface, he didn't compromise any Republican principles, he has clearly had a change in heart as to what strategy he favours though.

Well IMO he did compromise on many core Republican principles e.g The right to engage in armed actions against the British, Abstentionism and Supporting British Policing in Ireland

[Dúiche Néill]

Was it a fantasy when the PIRA where trying to achieve this? I dont know where you seem to be getting that I was even talking about this issue. I was making the point that for us to achieve an Irish republic we will need more people to support us (I know you would disagree but I was making the point to scarface). Scarface would be of the same opinion yet he seemed suprised when one person changed their mind so how could he envision many people doing it.

The Republican movement realised the error of abstentionism in 1986 and armed militancy round 10 years later. Your movement has reverted back to both defunct strategies and nothing short of a miracle would see you deliver an Irish Republic through abstentionism, non-electoral participation and the threat or use of violence.

[Foyleview]

The Republican movement realised the error of abstentionism in 1986 and armed militancy round 10 years later. Your movement has reverted back to both defunct strategies and nothing short of a miracle would see you deliver an Irish Republic through abstentionism, non-electoral participation and the threat or use of violence.

well said a chara. i would go a little further and say that not only are they not going to achieve anything they are doing damage to the cause .

[Dúiche Néill]

well said a chara. i would go a little further and say that not only are they not going to achieve anything they are doing damage to the cause .

I would absolutely agree with you there. It is most reminiscent of the way in which the left was discreditted and trivialised in the US and Britain as a result of infiltration, and misdirection by provocateurs.

[Hessian Peel]

well said a chara. i would go a little further and say that not only are they not going to achieve anything they are doing damage to the cause .

What do you base this analysis on?

[Dúiche Néill]

What do you base this analysis on?

How about the fact that armed groups carrying out the pretense of resistance and engaging in symbollic profile-raising stunts have provided Britain with justification for the MI5 buildup and any continuation of political policing. These actions really serve no purpose other than providing a cloak of legitimacy for Britain's persistence with dirty war tactics.

[robertemmett]

How about the fact that armed groups carrying out the pretense of resistance and engaging in symbollic profile-raising stunts have provided Britain with justification for the MI5 buildup and any continuation of political policing. These actions really serve no purpose other than providing a cloak of legitimacy for Britain's persistence with dirty war tactics.

the build up of MI5?

sure wasnt it psf that endorsed the building of a new MI5 HQ in Hollywood?

[Dúiche Néill]

the build up of MI5?

sure wasnt it psf that endorsed the building of a new MI5 HQ in Hollywood?

Only within the confines of your imagination.

[Foyleview]

the build up of MI5?

sure wasnt it psf that endorsed the building of a new MI5 HQ in Hollywood?


that s rubbish . and you know it.

you hatred for sinn fein must be deep as has blinded and twisted you.
it would be nice if you could be a little objective sometimes as i do believe you are an intelligent guy.

[robertemmett]

i'm sorry.. what is that building there on the edge of hollywood ... a bowling alley?

or is it a MI5 HQ ?

[Foyleview]

to keep to the subject of the thread.
what good is any person who turns their back on their friends and comrades.

[Jim]

to keep to the subject of the thread.
what good is any person who turns their back on their friends and comrades.

Would you say that to his face or do you prefer the cowardly option?

[Dúiche Néill]

i'm sorry.. what is that building there on the edge of hollywood ... a bowling alley?

or is it a MI5 HQ ?

Do enlighten us as to how specifically it was endorsed by Sinn Féin.

[Jim]

Do enlighten us as to how specifically it was endorsed by Sinn Féin.

The provisional leadership could have used the existence of the building as a deal breaker in the talks for the s.a.a which would have been backed by nationalists/republicans of every shade.
It would have been the right thing to do.

[robertemmett]

well martin mc guinness was quoted asking people to pass whatever info they had on the shooting of thon cop in derry to the cops, and as you know all intelligence that cop gathers on republicans is passed to MI5 working in the said building.

further.. the HQ has only the las few years become operational, yet psf went along with the plans to have it there.

perhaps there is a mechanism in the DPPs or PB that deals with the removal of british governamental intelligence services from ireland?

so what have psf being doing to remove it?

perhaps even a recent statement by a psf member concerning its existence, would lead me to believe that psf reject that building.. but you know... i never hear them refering to it at all

[Dúiche Néill]

The provisional leadership could have used the existence of the building as a deal breaker in the talks for the s.a.a which would have been backed by nationalists/republicans of every shade.
It would have been the right thing to do.

So what would that have achieved? Would it have stopped the MI5 build-up? Would it have advanced the cause of unity one iota? The only people who would have benifitted from such a course of action is Unionist hardliners, it's amazing the parallels between them and you lot sometimes.

[Dúiche Néill]

well martin mc guinness was quoted asking people to pass whatever info they had on the shooting of thon cop in derry to the cops, and as you know all intelligence that cop gathers on republicans is passed to MI5 working in the said building.

further.. the HQ has only the las few years become operational, yet psf went along with the plans to have it there.

perhaps there is a mechanism in the DPPs or PB that deals with the removal of british governamental intelligence services from ireland?

so what have psf being doing to remove it?

perhaps even a recent statement by a psf member concerning its existence, would lead me to believe that psf reject that building.. but you know... i never hear them refering to it at all
Thought as much, you have nothing to offer but waffle.

[robertemmett]

whats waffle about that?

any chance of those public statements from your party decrying the existence of an MI% HQ in ireland? surely it must be top of the list in your cumann meetings

or
perhaps not.

[Dúiche Néill]

whats waffle about that?

any chance of those public statements from your party decrying the existence of an MI% HQ in ireland? surely it must be top of the list in your cumann meetings

or
perhaps not.

You made a statement in regard to the MI5 build-up being "endorsed" by Sinn Féin. You have yet to make good on any reasonble attempt to back-up that statement; it seems you are little more than a wind-up merchant with an excessive need for attention.

[robertemmett]

psf have endorsed it, as they endorse the british policing on this island. the leaders of psf call for info concerning republicans to be passed to MI5. i think it is pretty clear that psf have no problems with MI5 here now.

[Dúiche Néill]

psf have endorsed it, as they endorse the british policing on this island. the leaders of psf call for info concerning republicans to be passed to MI5. i think it is pretty clear that psf have no problems with MI5 here now.

Sinn Féin representatives call for co-operation with the police in all of their investigations. They cannot be selective, if there weren't people engaged in unnecessary acts of futility then there would be much harder for the Brits to justify the MI5 presence. You would think by the way that you're talking here that you approve of the attacks on the cops when you're on another thread talking about the IRA "murdering" people for 30 years. Bottom line is you are merely engaging in wind-up.

[Foyleview]

Would you say that to his face or do you prefer the cowardly option?


so i am supposed to be threatened into being quiet and not expressing an opinion. i see now how free your ireland would be.

[scarface]

How about the fact that armed groups carrying out the pretense of resistance and engaging in symbollic profile-raising stunts have provided Britain with justification for the MI5 buildup and any continuation of political policing. These actions really serve no purpose other than providing a cloak of legitimacy for Britain's persistence with dirty war tactics.

Aye but chuckling with the DUP, supporting a British police force and Parliament in our country is the way to freedom

[scarface]

to keep to the subject of the thread.
what good is any person who turns their back on their friends and comrades.

Yeah the ex RUC officer and Stoop who joined the provos is no good

[Dúiche Néill]

Aye but chuckling with the DUP, supporting a British police force and Parliament in our country is the way to freedom

You're so right, we should all pretend that Ruairi O Bradaigh is president of the Republic and the British will vanish in a puff of smoke, taking the Unionists with them, and we can all live happily ever after in a wee Celtic paradise under Ruairi's benevolent leadership.
Well, maybe not. There will be a united Ireland but it will not happen without sacrifices and compromises. Under the Sinn Féin strategy the sacrifices and compromises are mostly symbollic or semantic and don't involve the loss or waste of Irish lives.

[Jim]

So what would that have achieved? Would it have stopped the MI5 build-up? Would it have advanced the cause of unity one iota? The only people who would have benifitted from such a course of action is Unionist hardliners, it's amazing the parallels between them and you lot sometimes.

By telling the british government that there will be no deal unless they remove the mi5 building would have shown that you had some sort of idea of what your doing but you didnt.Even the stoops would have supported that move as they have been more vocal on the subject than your party has.
And it was the late john kelly who brought up the point about the mi5 building should have been a dealbreaker at a meeting in fermanagh shortly before he died.

so i am supposed to be threatened into being quiet and not expressing an opinion. i see now how free your ireland would be.

No one said your not entitled to an opinion but your an awful coward though as you prefer to denigrate this man anonymously on the forum instead of telling him to his face.

[Dúiche Néill]

By telling the british government that there will be no deal unless they remove the mi5 building would have shown that you had some sort of idea of what your doing but you didnt.Even the stoops would have supported that move as they have been more vocal on the subject than your party has.
And it was the late john kelly who brought up the point about the mi5 building should have been a dealbreaker at a meeting in fermanagh shortly before he died.
Are you sure the stoops would have scuppered Stormont if presented with a fait accompli in regard to the MI5 building? I think not, what you saw there was safe and meaningless posturing that they knew they would never have to make good on. The Brits would have been building it anyway, the stoops knew that and so did the Dublin govt. Do you think they would have stood up with Sinn Féin in a pan-Nationalist front against the MI5 building? Surely you're not that naive.


No one said your not entitled to an opinion but your an awful coward though as you prefer to denigrate this man anonymously on the forum instead of telling him to his face.

Who are you to call the courage of others into question from the safe anonymity of your own computer screen? You don't know Foyleview or what he may or may not have done in the past. He's from the same area as the man this thread is based around so he could well know him and might well vioce his opinions personally. Your attitude in this situation has been unnecessarily confrontational.

[Jim]

Are you sure the stoops would have scuppered Stormont if presented with a fait accompli in regard to the MI5 building? I think not, what you saw there was safe and meaningless posturing that they knew they would never have to make good on. The Brits would have been building it anyway, the stoops knew that and so did the Dublin govt. Do you think they would have stood up with Sinn Féin in a pan-Nationalist front against the MI5 building? Surely you're not that naive.


Which brings us back to why the provos didnt say we wont do a deal while this building is in ireland.
If yourselves,the stoops and the southern government havent even the will or indeed the ability to tackle the british government on something as important as mi5 in ireland then how will you prevent the british government dictating your policies or interfering in irish affairs.

Who are you to call the courage of others into question from the safe anonymity of your own computer screen? You don't know Foyleview or what he may or may not have done in the past. He's from the same area as the man this thread is based around so he could well know him and might well vioce his opinions personally. Your attitude in this situation has been unnecessarily confrontational

foyleview said...

what good is any person who turns their back on their friends and comrades.

He called into question the ability of this man just because he left his party and he quite cowardly did so anonymously.I asked him whether he would call into question the ability of this man to his face and he didnt answer.
If foyleview wants to say what he said to his face im quite sure it could be arranged but i dont think he will somehow.

I am not being confrontational but i will defend any republican who is subjected to cowardly bile and excreta from a degenerate provo stooge as it has been happening quite a lot lately as some provos believe if a person isnt a provo then they are fair game for underhanded snide remarks and it wont be accepted by us.

[RisenBelfast]

Though SF did insist on the unaccountability of the spooks as part of the St Andrew's Agreement. Previously their intelligence gathering in the 6 counties would have been in liaison with the RUC and supposedly under local oversight but SF insisted there be no accountability through bodies they endorse instead handing oversight to a Westminister Committee which the DUP then successfully got themselves appointed to.

So the argument for a purely 'civic' Police force meant they ensured a free hand for MI5 in Ireland.

(don't take this as me arguing for local accountability of MI5 or the RUC in the north, I reject any role for British law in Ireland but am pointing out what SF's negotiating delivered)

[scarface]

Though SF did insist on the unaccountability of the spooks as part of the St Andrew's Agreement. Previously their intelligence gathering in the 6 counties would have been in liaison with the RUC and supposedly under local oversight but SF insisted there be no accountability through bodies they endorse instead handing oversight to a Westminister Committee which the DUP then successfully got themselves appointed to.

So the argument for a purely 'civic' Police force meant they ensured a free hand for MI5 in Ireland.

(don't take this as me arguing for local accountability of MI5 or the RUC in the north, I reject any role for British law in Ireland but am pointing out what SF's negotiating delivered)

Yes but the RUC/PSNI do have a unit that 'co-operates' with mi5 so they actualy achieved nothing

[Dúiche Néill]

.

I am not being confrontational but i will defend any republican who is subjected to cowardly bile and excreta from a degenerate provo stooge as it has been happening quite a lot lately as some provos believe if a person isnt a provo then they are fair game for underhanded snide remarks and it wont be accepted by us.

Unbelievable you will "defend any republican who is subjected to cowardly bile and excreta" and you can see fit to call another Republican a "degenerate provo stooge". Is it only "cowardly bile and excreta" when non-"provos" are being subjected to it?

[Foyleview]

Which brings us back to why the provos didnt say we wont do a deal while this building is in ireland.
If yourselves,the stoops and the southern government havent even the will or indeed the ability to tackle the british government on something as important as mi5 in ireland then how will you prevent the british government dictating your policies or interfering in irish affairs.



foyleview said...



He called into question the ability of this man just because he left his party and he quite cowardly did so anonymously.I asked him whether he would call into question the ability of this man to his face and he didnt answer.
If foyleview wants to say what he said to his face im quite sure it could be arranged but i dont think he will somehow.

I am not being confrontational but i will defend any republican who is subjected to cowardly bile and excreta from a degenerate provo stooge as it has been happening quite a lot lately as some provos believe if a person isnt a provo then they are fair game for underhanded snide remarks and it wont be accepted by us.

read back.. I did answer.

[Jim]

Unbelievable you will "defend any republican who is subjected to cowardly bile and excreta" and you can see fit to call another Republican a "degenerate provo stooge". Is it only "cowardly bile and excreta" when non-"provos" are being subjected to it?

I dont regard foyleview as a republican for a start off and my description is quite accurate for reasons ive outlined.

Ive been completely honest and upfront about what ive said and have given foyleview an opportuinity to defend himself unlike him choosing to have a swipe at breslin from afar.
We had a similar problem with other provos referring to south armagh republicans as criminals and vipers so its nothing new unfournately.

[Jim]

read back.. I did answer.

So will you be discussing what you said to that man's face?

[Foyleview]

Aye but chuckling with the DUP, supporting a British police force and Parliament in our country is the way to freedom

Are you as a mod not supposed to be maintaining some degree of order on this forum ?
why are you engaging in hate filled postings which besides everythig else are of topic.
your buddy can look after himself.

[Foyleview]

So will you be discussing what you said to that man's face?

read my answer.

[Carlos McJackle]

They cannot be selective, if there weren't people engaged in unnecessary acts of futility then there would be much harder for the Brits to justify the MI5 presence .

Really ? since when did the British governemnt or military have to justify such decisions to anyone ? Are you referring perhaps to the local residents ? are they annoyed or something ?

[Jim]

read my answer.

So you wont tell that man what you said to his face and insist on the cowardly option,im glad we've cleared that one up.

You could easily say yes or no instead of trying to change the subject.

[Dúiche Néill]

I dont regard foyleview as a republican for a start off and my description is quite accurate for reasons ive outlined.

Ive been completely honest and upfront about what ive said and have given foyleview an opportuinity to defend himself unlike him choosing to have a swipe at breslin from afar.
We had a similar problem with other provos referring to south armagh republicans as criminals and vipers so its nothing new unfournately.

So now you're the self-appointed authority on who gets to be called a Republican...lovely.

[Foyleview]

so i am supposed to be threatened into being quiet and not expressing an opinion. i see now how free your ireland would be.
my quote for you

why would i want to do that ?

i have an opinion, i have expressed it. Are you thinking that by meeting him or some of your thug buddies I could be bullied or intimidated into saying something different.
you really don t have a clue do you.

you think that all thing can be resolved by violence or the threat of. sad....

[Jim]

So now you're the self-appointed authority on who gets to be called a Republican...lovely.

Not at all, i just dont regard foyleview as a republican.id even go as far as saying there are more republican principles in my dogs left testicle.

People who uphold Republican Principles and dont place the cause of Republican in disrepute by cowardly snidery are Republicans.
It seems though that your more concerned about who can call themselves Republican than actually being Republican.

[Foyleview]

Not at all, i just dont regard foyleview as a republican.id even go as far as saying there are more republican principles in my dogs left testicle.

People who uphold Republican Principles and dont place the cause of Republican in disrepute by cowardly snidery are Republicans.
It seems though that your more concerned about who can call themselves Republican than actually being Republican.


well i suppose there is no need for us to avail of the service advertised along side your post ?

[Jim]

my quote for you

why would i want to do that ?

i have an opinion, i have expressed it. Are you thinking that by meeting him or some of your thug buddies I could be bullied or intimidated into saying something different.
you really don t have a clue do you.

you think that all thing can be resolved by violence or the threat of. sad....

Are you drunk?Who mentioned violence?

If you honestly believe that your opinion was not a cowardly swipe at breslin then why wouldnt you tell him what you said.

Are you trying to suggest that our movement are violent thugs?

[Dúiche Néill]

Really ? since when did the British governemnt or military have to justify such decisions to anyone ? Are you referring perhaps to the local residents ? are they annoyed or something ?
If these unwanted and unnecessary actions, that you yourself agree happening outside of conditions liable to result in success, weren't taking place and there weren't people posturing with weapons then it would be increasingly difficult for MI5 to justify their budget to the British electorate.

[Dúiche Néill]

Not at all, i just dont regard foyleview as a republican.id even go as far as saying there are more republican principles in my dogs left testicle.

People who uphold Republican Principles and dont place the cause of Republican in disrepute by cowardly snidery are Republicans.
It seems though that your more concerned about who can call themselves Republican than actually being Republican.

No, I'm more puzzled by your arrogance, double standards and elevated sense of self-importance.

[Carlos McJackle]

If these unwanted and unnecessary actions, that you yourself agree are not taking place in conditions liable to result in success, weren't taking place and there weren't people posturing with weapons then it would be increasingly difficult for MI5 to justify their budget to the British electorate.


your just repeating yourself . ive asked you to whom the British military and Governemnt feel they have to justify their decisiions as a sovereign governemnt on national security to ?
Im unaware of any local residents groups complaining

[Foyleview]

Are you drunk?Who mentioned violence?

If you honestly believe that your opinion was not a cowardly swipe at breslin then why wouldnt you tell him what you said.

Are you trying to suggest that our movement are violent thugs?

well its common code.

you know like

lets step outside
why don t you say it to my face

loyality is standing by your comrades , no matter what you personal opinions are.

[Jim]

well its common code.

you know like

lets step outside
why don t you say it to my face

loyality is standing by your comrades , no matter what you personal opinions are.

What do you mean common code ffs?

Are you admitting that your a coward who wont say what you said in here to that mans face?
Are you trying to suggest that our movement are violent thugs?

[Dúiche Néill]

your just repeating yourself . ive asked you to whom the British military and Governemnt feel they have to justify their decisiions as a sovereign governemnt on national security to ?
Im unaware of any local residents groups complaining

I repeated myself because it seems that you didn't get it the first time. You still don't, go figure.

[Jim]

No, I'm more puzzled by your arrogance, double standards and elevated sense of self-importance.

If your puzzled by the truth then i cant help you unfournately.

[Dúiche Néill]

If your puzzled by the truth then i cant help you unfournately.

There you go again, the truth according to Jim. "unfournately" for Jim, most rational people with normal egos would view your behavior as increasingly megalomaniac. Are you Monaghan's answer to Mugabe?

[Carlos McJackle]

so you dont know who they have to , or feel they have to, justify these decisions to ,you just figured they have to justify themselves to some person or persons unkown . I think youll find they dont have to justify to it anyone , being the people who are actually in charge .

I think youll also find they explained - to the British taxpayer whose money was paying for it - they were worried about a possible terrorist attack from Al Qaeda on their London HQ and this was a back up facility in the event of a WMD being used .

[Foyleview]

If your puzzled by the truth then i cant help you unfournately.

get a life.. this is repetitive.

[Jim]

There you go again, the truth according to Jim. "unfournately" for Jim, most rational people with normal egos would view your behavior as increasingly megalomaniac. Are you Monaghan's answer to Mugabe?

No, most people would view what i said as what i said.Just because someone calls themselves republican doesnt make it so.

Do you regard fianna fail as republican considering they call themselves republican?

[Jim]

get a life.. this is repetitive.

Why dont you answer the few questions i asked instead of trying to change the subject and using infantile slogans?
Do you hide behind other people often foyleview?

[Dúiche Néill]

No, most people would view what i said as what i said.Just because someone calls themselves republican doesnt make it so.

Do you regard fianna fail as republican considering they call themselves republican?

Away off on a tangent now altogether. Given some of the examples of intolerance that I have seen posted by you, there would be significant grounds to question your Republican credentials; but I don't engage in childish games like that.

[Dúiche Néill]

so you dont know who they have to , or feel they have to, justify these decisions to ,you just figured they have to justify themselves to some person or persons unkown . I think youll find they dont have to justify to it anyone , being the people who are actually in charge .

I think youll also find they explained - to the British taxpayer whose money was paying for it - they were worried about a possible terrorist attack from Al Qaeda on their London HQ and this was a back up facility in the event of a WMD being used .

All the more reason why they shouldn't need an annual budget in the 10s of millions to staff a back-up facility.

[Jim]

Away off on a tangent now altogether. Given some of the examples of intolerance that I have seen posted by you, there would be significant grounds to question your Republican credentials; but I don't engage in childish games like that.

You cant address what ive said quite simply.

Funny that your childish enough to mention bringing up stuff but you wont actually do so because there isnt any examples.

[Carlos McJackle]

All the more reason why they shouldn't need an annual budget in the 10s of millions to staff a back-up facility.

so you agree then that your attempt to blame republicans for its presence was wrong , and they can pretty much do what they like as they always have done without justifying it to anyone. Except perhaps the British taxpayer

[Foyleview]

Why dont you answer the few questions i asked instead of trying to change the subject and using infantile slogans?
Do you hide behind other people often foyleview?

you never asked any questions.
just childish hard man talk and insults.
Are you a typical 32 supporter ?

[Carlos McJackle]

who do you support Foyleview ? I confess Ive never really managed to figure your somewhat cryptic posts out

[Jim]

you never asked any questions.
just childish hard man talk and insults.
Are you a typical 32 supporter ?

Are you seriously trying to tell outright lies when the proof can be quite easily produced.

The few questions are
What do you mean common code ffs?

Are you admitting that your a coward who wont say what you said in here to that mans face?
Are you trying to suggest that our movement are violent thugs?

There is no hard man talk at all and everyone can clearly see that.

[Dúiche Néill]

You cant address what ive said quite simply.

Funny that your childish enough to mention bringing up stuff but you wont actually do so because there isnt any examples.
You haven't said anything that merits addressing. All you have done is apply double standards to personally abuse Foyleview and then hide behind a holier than thou attitude.
so you agree then that your attempt to blame republicans for its presence was wrong , and they can pretty much do what they like as they always have done without justifying it to anyone. Except perhaps the British taxpayer

It's very simple; the present armed posturing by certain groupings provides cover for a massive MI5 budget and build-up in what has been sold to the British public as a back-up facility. Would it not be more useful to be reaching out to the British communities that are suffering degraded public services as a result of this spending by proving to them that it is unjustified. This could then force electoral commitments from British politicians vis a vis the more useful allocation of the tax revenue for the public service of those who pay the taxes.

[Jim]

You haven't said anything that merits addressing. All you have done is apply double standards to personally abuse Foyleview and then hide behind a holier than thou attitude.


In other words your unable to adress what i said.I have based any criticism on foyleview on what he said in this thread,im not the one talking about bringing up examples about people from other threads.So who's being personal then?

[Dúiche Néill]

In other words your unable to adress what i said.I have based any criticism on foyleview on what he said in this thread,im not the one talking about bringing up examples about people from other threads.So who's being personal then?

Your comments on the gay bar thread were dodgy and there was a post on there that referanced intolerant comments made by you in regard to people's musical tastes on another thread. I'm not going looking for it now but I remember seeing it at the time. This discussion is totally pointless and way off-topic, just like your personal abuse of Foyleview.

[Jim]

Your comments on the gay bar thread were dodgy and there was a post on there that referanced intolerant comments made by you in regard to people's musical tastes on another thread. I'm not going looking for it now but I remember seeing it at the time. This discussion is totally pointless and way off-topic, just like your personal abuse of Foyleview.

And did you see other peoples rejection off any intolerance by me on that thread,notably chris gaskin who isnt a fan of our movement at all to put it mildly.How was i intolerant then?
And did you also see my explanation about the comments i made in regards to the music thread?
You have quite a lot in common with east tyrone havent you?

So is that it then?Are you finished?

Ive not personally abused anyone and if foyleview had answered my questions (which he hasnt) a while back then we wouldnt be having this discussion now.

[Foyleview]

yawn...yawn....

[Carlos McJackle]

.


[QUOTE]It's very simple; the present armed posturing by certain groupings provides cover for a massive MI5 budget and build-up in what has been sold to the British public as a back-up facility.

this doesnt even make sense . First you claim republicans are the excuse theyve used then in the same breath you claim necessity for a back up is the excuse theyve used ? Which is it ? This is more like gibberish

how do you know this ? I havent seen anyone else but you claim this . The British governemnt dont , the British military dont , the PSNI dont , no political parties that Im aware of have . So again Im asking you from where or on what basis have you derived this insight into the decison making of Britians national security experts ?
None of these photgrpahs have appeared in the London newspapers as far as Im aware . Most British people probably think peace has been fully secured in Ireland . Tony Blair afterall made a huge point of coming to stormont and proclaiming it was all over . Hugh Orde claims he does not need any military assistance . So I fail to see any basis for your blaming republicans for the activities of the crown forces .
I also dont even see the logic in it . The north of Ireland isnt really a great place to live , not much happening in it . Where I a leading figure in the British intelligence services Id much prefer to be based in London with its restaraunts ,gentlemans clubs , architecture , historic buildings etc . Not this kip . I certainly wouldnt be using the excuse of a few photgrpahs of guys with guns as an excuse to have myself moved to such a backward and uncultured dump . And I honestly doubt I could persuade the notoriously tight fisted chancellor and now Prime Minister Gordon Brown to part with such money on the basis of a few photgraphs , particulalry considering islamists are actually blowing up trains and buses full of people in the centre of London and Britian is bogged down in Iraq and Afganisatan with Brritish generals howling for more money and equipment .

therefore your claims simply do not add up .

Im very glad however to see you admit that sinn fein , the southern governemnt and northern politicians in general dont have a say and therefore the British governemnt does not have to justify it to them . Only their own taxpayer

Would it not be more useful to be reaching out to the British communities that are suffering degraded public services as a result of this spending by proving to them that it is unjustified. This could then force electoral commitments from British politicians vis a vis the more useful allocation of the tax revenue for the public service of those who pay the taxes]


Is that not a question you should be putting to your MP or MLA ? However the likelihood of them taking the place down isnt very realistic this side of a British withdrawal from Ireland

[Éire32CS]

Good to see people joining the movement after changing their perspective and I think this is always heartening and should be welcomed.

The main issue of this thread has been derailed and changed as usual thanks to the same poster(s) as always.

I think the respect of differing opinions/beliefs is lacking,especially with the terms 'coward','traitors' and 'delusional' being thrown in the face of people by other self professed republicans,but this also shows deeper into the own mindset of the people in question.

The 32CSM in this thread has been accused of being full of thugs whose main reasoning to arguments is to use threatening tactics, I would ask the poster who said this to provide evidence of this if he is to continue to make these unsubstantited allegations.

Elitism has been another term thrown around in this thread towards the direction of 32CSM supporters, but criticism towards a PSF supporter who has called a man a coward for simply changing his beliefs has gone unmentioned by these same people??Because he does not continue to follow the same beliefs now as he once used to??People can make up their own mind as to this slanderous postings which could possibly be classified itself as cowardly if that is the word of the moment.

It's a good thing we don't have a creche to use as a equivilant for any ground study to compare....


Beir Bua.

[Jim]

yawn...yawn....

Its an awful pity you didnt yawn a while back instead of making cowardly comments that you cant back up.

[Dúiche Néill]

And did you see other peoples rejection off any intolerance by me on that thread,notably chris gaskin who isnt a fan of our movement at all to put it mildly.How was i intolerant then?
And did you also see my explanation about the comments i made in regards to the music thread?
You have quite a lot in common with east tyrone havent you?

So is that it then?Are you finished?

Ive not personally abused anyone and if foyleview had answered my questions (which he hasnt) a while back then we wouldnt be having this discussion now.

I happen to know ET very well, it was him who told me about the site. That's beside the point, you made insulting personal remarks and then tried to justify them by claiming that you didn't consider Foyleview to be a Republican. You have consistently acted in an arrogant and self-righteous manner during this discussion and I really couldn't be bothered with it anymore.

[Jim]

Good to see people joining the movement after changing their perspective and I think this is always heartening and should be welcomed.

The main issue of this thread has been derailed and changed as usual thanks to the same poster(s) as always.

I think the respect of differing opinions/beliefs is lacking,especially with the terms 'coward','traitors' and 'delusional' being thrown in the face of people by other self professed republicans,but this also shows deeper into the own mindset of the people in question.

The 32CSM in this thread has been accused of being full of thugs whose main reasoning to arguments is to use threatening tactics, I would ask the poster who said this to provide evidence of this if he is to continue to make these unsubstantited allegations.

Elitism has been another term thrown around in this thread towards the direction of 32CSM supporters, but criticism towards a PSF supporter who has called a man a coward for simply changing his beliefs has gone unmentioned by these same people??Because he does not continue to follow the same beliefs now as he once used to??People can make up their own mind as to this slanderous postings which could possibly be classified itself as cowardly if that is the word of the moment.

It's a good thing we don't have a creche to use as a equivilant for any ground study to compare....


Beir Bua.

If someone questions the ability of a republican who had the bravery to leave psf to get involved with our movement and more than likely suffer harassment at the hands of the state and ostracisation from his former colleagues and yet wouldnt admit to saying it to the republican face then its nothing but cowardly eire.
Ive done nothing wrong or caused any tension despite the fact that people are bringing up other threads to attack me personally.

[Jim]

I happen to know ET very well, it was him who told me about the site. That's beside the point, you made insulting personal remarks and then tried to justify them by claiming that you didn't consider Foyleview to be a Republican. You have consistently acted in an arrogant and self-righteous manner during this discussion and I really couldn't be bothered with it anymore.

I never made any insulting remarks to foyleview and im quite sure if he feels hard done by he can defend himself without you or bring it up with the mods.

Im not in anyway arrogant as people who know me can testify but i refuse to acknowledge anyone who isnt republican as republican.

[Dúiche Néill]

this doesnt even make sense . First you claim republicans are the excuse theyve used then in the same breath you claim necessity for a back up is the excuse theyve used ? Which is it ? This is more like gibberish

how do you know this ? I havent seen anyone else but you claim this . The British governemnt dont , the British military dont , the PSNI dont , no political parties that Im aware of have . So again Im asking you from where or on what basis have you derived this insight into the decison making of Britians national security experts ?
None of these photgrpahs have appeared in the London newspapers as far as Im aware . Most British people probably think peace has been fully secured in Ireland . Tony Blair afterall made a huge point of coming to stormont and proclaiming it was all over . Hugh Orde claims he does not need any military assistance . So I fail to see any basis for your blaming republicans for the activities of the crown forces .
I also dont even see the logic in it . The north of Ireland isnt really a great place to live , not much happening in it . Where I a leading figure in the British intelligence services Id much prefer to be based in London with its restaraunts ,gentlemans clubs , architecture , historic buildings etc . Not this kip . I certainly wouldnt be using the excuse of a few photgrpahs of guys with guns as an excuse to have myself moved to such a backward and uncultured dump . And I honestly doubt I could persuade the notoriously tight fisted chancellor and now Prime Minister Gordon Brown to part with such money on the basis of a few photgraphs , particulalry considering islamists are actually blowing up trains and buses full of people in the centre of London and Britian is bogged down in Iraq and Afganisatan with Brritish generals howling for more money and equipment .
therefore your claims simply do not add up .
Im very glad however to see you admit that sinn fein , the southern governemnt and northern politicians in general dont have a say and therefore the British governemnt does not have to justify it to them . Only their own taxpayer
The MI5 build-up is about social engineering and attempting to influence the outcomes of future unification referenda. The present, token resistance provides a smokescreen. They are recruiting local operatives through advertisements so they are planning on a long-haul approach. Token resistance only provides more shadows for them to operate in. It is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that a concerted campaign to alert the British tax-payer to the true monetary cost of their presence here could lead to considerable pressure for disengagement. Just look at Basra, differant conditions but similar concept.

Is that not a question you should be putting to your MP or MLA ? However the likelihood of them taking the place down isnt very realistic this side of a British withdrawal from Ireland

My local MP/MLA is committed to achieving a united Ireland through peaceful means. The people who support and advocate token resistance would be better offf re-directing their energies in a more positive and useful manner.

[Éire32CS]

I happen to know ET very well, it was him who told me about the site. That's beside the point, you made insulting personal remarks and then tried to justify them by claiming that you didn't consider Foyleview to be a Republican. You have consistently acted in an arrogant and self-righteous manner during this discussion and I really couldn't be bothered with it anymore.


Duiche, if you consider the manner which Jim has acted in as 'self righteous and arrogant' would you say the same about the person you are no defending,foyleview???
He has made insulting remarks(by calling a man who has changed his beliefs and parties a coward aswell as calling republicans traitors tonight) and going on how he now believs this man to be a coward, it would not be unjustified to presume he does not consider him a true republican anymore, or his type of republican to better put it. He now also considers this man a traitor since he has earlier stated in the Main forum.
You will also have to remark on this to keep the playing field level mo chara.

[Éire32CS]

If someone questions the ability of a republican who had the bravery to leave psf to get involved with our movement and more than likely suffer harassment at the hands of the state and ostracisation from his former colleagues and yet wouldnt admit to saying it to the republican face then its nothing but cowardly eire.
Ive done nothing wrong or caused any tension despite the fact that people are bringing up other threads to attack me personally.

Constructive criticism is good mo chara but when it comes from the perches in torrents of biased and unwarranted attention it is clear to see into the mindsets of the indivduals involved and hopefully the larger propotion of people reading,viewing,hearing etc this every day will realise and see this.

[Carlos McJackle]

[QUOTE]The MI5 build-up is about social engineering and attempting to influence the outcomes of future unification referenda.

but your entire fecking peace process GFA and party strategy is built upon the premise that the British have no strategic interests in this country ? This is amazing stuff your coming out with . Have you informed you local party as to this theory . People should be told !! Its outrageous !!!

The present, token resistance provides a smokescreen.

How ? We have established theyve told the British taxpayer its to do with Al Qaeda . we have established they dont have to justify their decisions on British national security to anyone in this country So who is this smokescreen directed at ? They havent claimed to anyone its got anything to do with Irish republicans .
Its looking increasingly like youve just made this stuff up off the top of your head to be honest .


They are recruiting local operatives through advertisements so they are planning on a long-haul approach.

Again , your entire strategy is based upon the claim they have no strategic interest in this country and are simply obligated to the politics of demographics and will leave as soon as the unionist veto expires through demographic change. This was the basis for the entire peace process , for Hume Adams , Downing street Declaration ,the Mitchell principles decomissioning , GFA , joining the peelrs . Now you claim its all a lie , a sham , this is not the case after all.

Amazing .

Where then does this leave your strategy if you believe its basis was a total lie by the the British ?Are you claiming now they do have a strategic interest in Ireland afterall ? The decison to divert so much of their resources , billions in expenditure , comes from the very top . A huge facility with this role cannot be blamed on a few rogue securocrats . Not a chance .
How then can you support a strategy based upon Britian having no strategic interest in Irland while simultaneously claiming they are interefering strategicaly and militarily in the political process to ensure their occupation continues indefinitely ?
If youd claimed this at an ard feis youd have been booted out .

Token resistance only provides more shadows for them to operate in. It is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that a concerted campaign to alert the British tax-payer to the true monetary cost of their presence here could lead to considerable pressure for disengagement. Just look at Basra, differant conditions but similar concept.

While its a good idea the fact is that your party could not embark upon such a campaign , as their entire strategy is based upon Britain having no strategic interest here .Indeed that theyd be glad to leave if they were able . Such a campaign would make a mockery of the peace process . Particularly the decison to surrender weapons .


My local MP/MLA is committed to achieving a united Ireland through peaceful means. The people who support and advocate token resistance would be better offf re-directing their energies in a more positive and useful manner


He hasnt defected yet then ?

[Dúiche Néill]

but your entire fecking peace process GFA and party strategy is built upon the premise that the British have no strategic interests in this country ? This is amazing stuff your coming out with . Have you informed you local party as to this theory . People should be told !! Its outrageous !!!
The British people and most likely the govt would love to be out of here, the establishment are a different matter and it is they who run the intel sector.



How ? We have established theyve told the British taxpayer its to do with Al Qaeda . we have established they dont have to justify their decisions on British national security to anyone in this country So who is this smokescreen directed at ? They havent claimed to anyone its got anything to do with Irish republicans .
Its looking increasingly like youve just made this stuff up off the top of your head to be honest .
If everyone committed to peaceful strategy for the time being at least then it would be much harder to justify political policing. It would also be much easier to spot those being run by MI5 because they would be pushing for action once the squeeze goes on the MI5 budget. That's simple logic.

Again , your entire strategy is based upon the claim they have no strategic interest in this country and are simply obligated to the politics of demographics and will leave as soon as the unionist veto expires through demographic change. This was the basis for the entire peace process , for Hume Adams , Downing street Declaration ,the Mitchell principles decomissioning , GFA , joining the peelrs . Now you claim its all a lie , a sham , this is not the case after all.
No that's how you have twisted it, the Brits will always try to manipulate things to their own advantage. The fact that they are committing all these resources to the MI5 buildup shows that they fear the long-term outcome of the GFA. Consensus building and North-South co-operation will overcome Brit intel interferance.

Where then does this leave your strategy if you believe its basis was a total lie by the the British ?Are you claiming now they do have a strategic interest in Ireland afterall ? The decison to divert so much of their resources , billions in expenditure , comes from the very top . A huge facility with this role cannot be blamed on a few rogue securocrats . Not a chance .
How then can you support a strategy based upon Britian having no strategic interest in Irland while simultaneously claiming they are interefering strategicaly and militarily in the political process to ensure their occupation continues indefinitely ?
If youd claimed this at an ard feis youd have been booted out .
Nobody is under any illusions about the intentions of the British establishment. Their efforts to cling on to the last will prove as hopeless here as they were in India, Kenya, Aden et al.

While its a good idea the fact is that your party could not embark upon such a campaign , as their entire strategy is based upon Britain having no strategic interest here .Indeed that theyd be glad to leave if they were able . Such a campaign would make a mockery of the peace process . Particularly the decison to surrender weapons .
How do you come to that conclusion, how would this mock the peace process; the Brits are spending lesss than they did during the conflict but it's still a huge sum? Do you not think that the British public would react angrily to the knowledge of what their presence in the 6 costs when the expenditure deprives their own schools and hospitals? Would this not be much more effective than token resistance?

[tireoghan]

How about the fact that armed groups carrying out the pretense of resistance and engaging in symbollic profile-raising stunts have provided Britain with justification for the MI5 buildup and any continuation of political policing. These actions really serve no purpose other than providing a cloak of legitimacy for Britain's persistence with dirty war tactics.

St Andrews Agreement! - the MI5 deal for Hollywood was done and dusted at St Andrews, jasus even the SDLP were complainning about it!

[Comrade Ryan]

to keep to the subject of the thread.
what good is any person who turns their back on their friends and comrades.

What is that supposed to mean exactly?

You know something, for my money you are one of the least valuable contributors here, second maybe only to the jamie 'shoot everyone' fella.

Are you trying to besmirch the name of a lifelong republican because he has decided to leave SF and join a grouping more representative of where he finds himself?

So if a party makes changes, which you end up not agreeing with, are you seriously suggesting you should stay in their purely through loyalty to your friends?

So your loyalty to the Republic and your ideology should be relegated to second place, first place being your loyalty to your friends?

This really says all there is need to know about you.

[Comrade Ryan]

loyality is standing by your comrades , no matter what you personal opinions are.

Well that really says it all doesn't it?

You are calling for the precise thing that SF supporters deny exists within their movement - blind loyalty.

[Hessian Peel]

How about the fact that armed groups carrying out the pretense of resistance and engaging in symbollic profile-raising stunts have provided Britain with justification for the MI5 buildup and any continuation of political policing. These actions really serve no purpose other than providing a cloak of legitimacy for Britain's persistence with dirty war tactics.

By that logic the Provos' campaign was an 'obstacle to progress' as the British were granted an even greater 'cloak of legitimacy' to use dirty tricks and heavy-handiness. Tell me this; if the Real IRA launched an effective campaign against the British presence would you still consider it 'pointless militarism' or would it be as justified as the pre-1997 IRA's war? It's interesting that some of the harshest critics of Republican separatists are almost encouraging them to step it up a notch.

[Hessian Peel]

If everyone committed to peaceful strategy for the time being at least then it would be much harder to justify political policing.

All policing is political.

The Gards repress working class communities in Dublin for the same reason that the RUC/PSNI stand as a bulwark against Republican resistance in Derry: the preservation of the state and its interests. Sinn Féin's claims that they will 'put manners' on or depoliticise the RUC/PSNI are ridiculous, as there isn't a single police force in the entire world that doesn't pursue the highly political agenda of preserving their respective states and governments.

[Éire32CS]

Duiche would you care to address the points I have put forward to you??

[Dúiche Néill]

By that logic the Provos' campaign was an 'obstacle to progress' as the British were granted an even greater 'cloak of legitimacy' to use dirty tricks and heavy-handiness. Tell me this; if the Real IRA launched an effective campaign against the British presence would you still consider it 'pointless militarism' or would it be as justified as the pre-1997 IRA's war? It's interesting that some of the harshest critics of Republican separatists are almost encouraging them to step it up a notch.

I'm not trying to encourage them. Any campaign that they embark upon will fail, as the strategic conditions do not exist for victory through armed militancy. The point that you raise in regard to the IRA campaign is only pertinent in so far as the fact that it should serve to educate those contemplating violent strategy that it isn't the way to go.

[Dúiche Néill]

Duiche, if you consider the manner which Jim has acted in as 'self righteous and arrogant' would you say the same about the person you are no defending,foyleview???
He has made insulting remarks(by calling a man who has changed his beliefs and parties a coward aswell as calling republicans traitors tonight) and going on how he now believs this man to be a coward, it would not be unjustified to presume he does not consider him a true republican anymore, or his type of republican to better put it. He now also considers this man a traitor since he has earlier stated in the Main forum.
You will also have to remark on this to keep the playing field level mo chara.
Duiche would you care to address the points I have put forward to you??

I don't believe that Foyleview used the word "coward", Jim certainly did. Foyleview made a statement of commentary on the thread subject, Jim responded with direct personal insult.
I don't agree with everything Foyleview has to say but I do notice that he receives a lot of personal abuse and insult. It's very possible that the treatment he receives, from some of the more obnoxious posters, may inflame his opinions and colour his analysis.

[boiler-1888]

I don't believe that Foyleview used the word "coward", Jim certainly did. Foyleview made a statement of commentary on the thread subject, Jim responded with direct personal insult.
I don't agree with everything Foyleview has to say but I do notice that he receives a lot of personal abuse and insult. It's very possible that the treatment he receives, from some of the more obnoxious posters, may inflame his opinions and colour his analysis.
He recieves insults because of his elitist blueshirt ideals. For example poking fun at men arrested in strabane over the weekend. Totally disregarding the hurt that it would have caused the men's familys.

Back the point.

The 'dissident' situation in Derry is totally out of control. The Brits and forces loyal to stormount was under some sort of belief that interning the 4 Derry men 2 weeks ago would have destroyed us. However, the commemoration went ahead a volunteer read out a statement, a Prominent member of SF joins up and what do you know up pops another Cumann. Not to even mention the amount of dead vol: familys that have aligned themselfs with the RNU. The wheels of the SF cart have fell off in my City and they are on the defencive. They no longer relay on republican votes just and they are no longer republicans and i cant wait to see what the republican history books make of them

We must be very careful that we do not isolate members of PSF that feel like seamus as he as shown that they are alternatives to complete and utter treachery.

[Éire32CS]

I don't believe that Foyleview used the word "coward", Jim certainly did. Foyleview made a statement of commentary on the thread subject, Jim responded with direct personal insult.
I don't agree with everything Foyleview has to say but I do notice that he receives a lot of personal abuse and insult. It's very possible that the treatment he receives, from some of the more obnoxious posters, may inflame his opinions and colour his analysis.

I realise he may recieve more attention, but what else would you expect if you call other republicans deluded and traitorous, state that loyalty to your friends should override ANYTHING else, make fun of arrested republicans, and seemingly not post anything constructive to the forum,unless you mark the constant derision of groups he does not align himself with as constructive???

[Carlos McJackle]

hes the most obvious troll on this site . Virtually everything he writes is calculated to stir it , thats painfully obvious . IMHO hes only taking the pish out of the site and everyone using it .

[Comrade Ryan]

hes the most obvious troll on this site . Virtually everything he writes is calculated to stir it , thats painfully obvious . IMHO hes only taking the pish out of the site and everyone using it .

Agreed.