Anti-Bush Anti Imperialism Raised Loud and Clear in Belfast

[Ógra Shinn Féin]

Ogra Shinn Fein mobilized activists from across Ireland for yesterday’s protest against US Imperialism at Belfast City Hall. The protest was called in response to George Bush visiting the city.

Over 100 Republican activists including Sinn Fein MLA’s and councilors marched with banners and posters from the party’s Sevastopal Street Office to join the joint protest at Belfast City Hall.

The Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness also met with George Bush, and raised Sinn Fein’s objections and concerns over the ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_sVC3GQ5C4

Speaking at the protest, National Organiser of Ogra Shinn Fein, Barry McColgan said,

“A loud and clear message was sent out to George Bush and the world that Ireland rejects Imperialism. Ogra Shinn Fein called for Imperialists out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but also out of our own country.”

“Hundreds of people mobilized today demonstrating their anger at US foreign policy but also in strong solidarity with peoples’ brutally oppressed by US tyranny.”

“The protest and demands we vocally aired today, must continue to be highlighted in Ireland and across the world to resonate and put pressure on the incoming US President to end these unpopular, murderous and illegal occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.”

[Comrade Ryan]

Ogra Shinn Fein mobilized activists from across Ireland for yesterday’s protest against US Imperialism at Belfast City Hall. The protest was called in response to George Bush visiting the city.

Over 100 Republican activists including Sinn Fein MLA’s and councilors marched with banners and posters from the party’s Sevastopal Street Office to join the joint protest at Belfast City Hall.

The Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness also met with George Bush, and raised Sinn Fein’s objections and concerns over the ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_sVC3GQ5C4

Speaking at the protest, National Organiser of Ogra Shinn Fein, Barry McColgan said,

“A loud and clear message was sent out to George Bush and the world that Ireland rejects Imperialism. Ogra Shinn Fein called for Imperialists out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but also out of our own country.”

“Hundreds of people mobilized today demonstrating their anger at US foreign policy but also in strong solidarity with peoples’ brutally oppressed by US tyranny.”

“The protest and demands we vocally aired today, must continue to be highlighted in Ireland and across the world to resonate and put pressure on the incoming US President to end these unpopular, murderous and illegal occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.”

I know its common practice for people to bump their numbers up but come on troops - over 100 - I'd say half that number would be more accurate.

[RisenBelfast]

Suppose that's one version of events above. Sort of ignored speaker after speaker attacking them from the platform.

Though certainly the ballsiest action of the day.

[Comrade Ryan]

Well I wasn't scornful of their presence.

To be honest, not that they'll appreciate me saying it, but I actually felt for a lot of the people there.

Some good people in their ranks on Monday and I felt sorry for them. Trying to hold up an argument that doesn't withstand scrutiny and knowing some of those there, they know that only too well.

I still have some sympathy for where some of them find themselves.

Others were just there under orders. Seen people there, who I know, who've never been near demos like that, but when you're claiming a wage you do as the boss says.

[RisenBelfast]

I know there were some damn fine and committed people from SF (calling it ógra was a bit of a joke) there, people that would have been there regardless of party position. What was a bit hard to stomach was them attempting to hijack the event by arriving en-masse in uniform without having done any work or attending a single organising meeting. If they had been supporting not hijacking they would have actually offered some support - its not like they are short of manpower as the 40 odd activists they turned out on the day demonstrated. Even a few quid towards posters and helping to put a couple up would have been something but no nada other than an attempt to get some press on the day.

[Comrade Ryan]

I know there were some damn fine and committed people from SF (calling it ógra was a bit of a joke) there, people that would have been there regardless of party position. What was a bit hard to stomach was them attempting to hijack the event by arriving en-masse in uniform without having done any work or attending a single organising meeting. If they had been supporting not hijacking they would have actually offered some support - its not like they are short of manpower as the 40 odd activists they turned out on the day demonstrated. Even a few quid towards posters and helping to put a couple up would have been something but no nada other than an attempt to get some press on the day.

Can't say I disagree with that.

[VENCEREMOS32]

“A loud and clear message was sent out to George Bush and the world that Ireland rejects Imperialism. Ogra Shinn Fein called for Imperialists out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but also out of our own country.”

“Hundreds of people mobilized today demonstrating their anger at US foreign policy but also in strong solidarity with peoples’ brutally oppressed by US tyranny.”

Forgive me, but was the deputy first minister over in America looking for companies to invest in Northern Ireland not so long ago and now he is ‘raising the concerns on behalf of I don’t know who regarding the US foreign policy’ with a particular focus on Iraq and Afghanistan?

I understand that Ógra Shinn Féin is a youth movement for young people, led and supported by young people whom will eventually graduate into Sinn Féin. Is it just me who finds this stuff hypocritical? This confuses me so much.

If this is what they see fit to do and say as a republican party, then great, I understand and wish them good look but why have their members standing outside demonstrating against Bush in the one breath whilst their ‘leaders’ are only drawing their breath after coming home from the US after visiting the President and asking him and his people for their Imperialistic assistance financially and economically. This is the mystification that concerns republicans right now. One word: confused!
And the Ógra movement is been thought this hypocritical nonsense at a young age to carry through until they themselves become ‘leaders’ in the republican movement. Help me out to understand this, maybe I have missed the point or objective here.

[belfast rep]

I know its common practice for people to bump their numbers up but come on troops - over 100 - I'd say half that number would be more accurate.

of course there was over a 100 repubublican activists, many were not members of SF,

[Comrade Ryan]

of course there was over a 100 repubublican activists, many were not members of SF,

Well that would be true but thats not what I think the post was saying.

I believe it to have meant that over 100 republican activists as in those with you.

I think most would read it that way seeing as it was dealt with in a story that dealt solely with SF and Ogra.

I don't think many would view that story as encompassing eirigi, etc.

EDIT: No it clearly dealt only with those that marched with SF and Ogra - it says:

"Over 100 Republican activists including Sinn Fein MLA’s and councilors marched with banners and posters from the party’s Sevastopal Street Office to join the joint protest at Belfast City Hall."

[belfast rep]

Well that would be true but thats not what I think the post was saying.

I believe it to have meant that over 100 republican activists as in those with you.

I think most would read it that way seeing as it was dealt with in a story that dealt solely with SF and Ogra.

I don't think many would view that story as encompassing eirigi, etc.

EDIT: No it clearly dealt only with those that marched with SF and Ogra - it says:

"Over 100 Republican activists including Sinn Fein MLA’s and councilors marched with banners and posters from the party’s Sevastopal Street Office to join the joint protest at Belfast City Hall."
and i ain't disagreeing,
there were about around 100 SF activists there many like myself didn't march into the town

[RisenBelfast]

It says 100 marched from Sevastopal Street not that they just attended. That isn't right and anyone there knows it, while recognising and accepting the inflation of numbers as a bog standard and legitimate tactic.

[Comrade Ryan]

and i ain't disagreeing,
there were about around 100 SF activists there many like myself didn't march into the town

How could one tell there were about 100 there if they were not all together.

I think you're fighting a rear guard action here.

You stated there were about 100 republican activists at the demo and that not all of them were SF.

However, the story clearly states that not only were there over 100 republican activists there, but that over 100 marched down from Sevastapol Street.

Now you say that there were about 100 SF activists and that not all marched into the town.

So that would mean there were well over 100 republican activists present. The over 100 SF that marched in, those SF that met the 'march' in the town, plus the non-SF members.

What is it to be?

Don't get yourself on a hook with this.

The numbers were grossly inflated, just leave it at that.

[belfast rep]

many Sf members like myself did, not march into the town
how do i know, because i know them, and nor am in the habit of lying
the numbers that marched into town grossly overinflated,?
i thought you have noticed i accepted that from my first post,

[Comrade Ryan]

many Sf members like myself did, not march into the town
how do i know, because i know them, and nor am in the habit of lying
the numbers that marched into town grossly overinflated,?
i thought you have noticed i accepted that from my first post,

I accept your first two points. Apologies for any offence caused.

I didn't notice that you accepted the grossly inflated numbers regaridng those that marched into the town.

Glad its agreed now though.

:icon_wink::icon_wink:

[RisenBelfast]

Credit where credit is due, without SF's contribution a demonstration against George Bush visiting Belfast would never have taken place. ;0)

[Comrade Ryan]

Credit where credit is due, without SF's contribution a demonstration against George Bush visiting Belfast would never have taken place.

Now now.

[Resurgam]

Credit where credit is due, without SF's contribution a demonstration against George Bush visiting Belfast would never have taken place. ;0)

True. Didn't Martin invite him.

[belfast rep]

Credit where credit is due, without SF's contribution a demonstration against George Bush visiting Belfast would never have taken place. ;0)

it took all that time thinking up that one.
Didn't Ógra say they were always going to protest

[ardonian]

There was at the most 25 Ogra "men and women aged 30 to 50" present and were a laughing stock to republicans.

[belfast rep]

There was at the most 25 Ogra "men and women aged 30 to 50" present and were a laughing stock to republicans.
didn't notice the 32csm there was that ones dressed as muppets

[ardonian]

Sure you wernt there?

[belfast rep]

Sure you wernt there?

yeah, because i didn't see any 32csm , i assume they were the ones disguised as muppets,

[RisenBelfast]

I saw members of the 32CSM there, they had also been at the earliest organising meetings.

[ardonian]

many Sf members like myself did, not march into the town
how do i know, because i know them, and nor am in the habit of lying
the numbers that marched into town grossly overinflated,?
i thought you have noticed i accepted that from my first post,

Did someone tell you who was in the city centre???

[ardonian]

Truth be told yous are no more than a laughing stock and this latest act of stupidity put the nails in the coffin.

[Comrade Ryan]

Come on folks.

Points have been made its just going to turn into a slanging match now.

[focail amhain]

SF **** a brick whenever the Iraq flag was raised and the eirigi banner unfurled.

Most definitely the highlight of the day!

[RisenBelfast]

Why would they have done that? The éirígí action had nothing to do with SF and everything with solidarity and anti-imperialism.

[focail amhain]

I say this only in the sense that they did not anticipate who had run up the flag until the eirigi banner appeared. Chill out!

[conghaileach]

EDIT: No it clearly dealt only with those that marched with SF and Ogra - it says:

"Over 100 Republican activists including Sinn Fein MLA’s and councilors marched with banners and posters from the party’s Sevastopal Street Office to join the joint protest at Belfast City Hall."

All that was needed to end this discussion was to watch the Ógra video above. You can clearly see that there at absolute most maybe 50 people walking down.

[Mellows1922]

All that was needed to end this discussion was to watch the Ógra video above. You can clearly see that there at absolute most maybe 50 people walking down.

well, next time that RSF or the 32s post photos or videos and a similar point is made I hope you'll be first in with your assessment.

[IrelandUnfree]

Truth be told yous are no more than a laughing stock and this latest act of stupidity put the nails in the coffin.

Yet who has the majority support? Hard to call a group attached to a party which the majority support a laughing stock. Last time I checked people (even non-shinners) found the laughing stocks to be certain other groups taking part

[conghaileach]

well, next time that RSF or the 32s post photos or videos and a similar point is made I hope you'll be first in with your assessment.

Only if they seriously inflate their numbers too.

It was good that SF people were at the rally yesterday. It's just a pity that it was one of their own who invited Bush over in the first place, it does make their presence at the rally seem like something of a face-saving exercise.

[joejoe]

Check warning in your Inbox - Admin.

[Daithí]

Only if they seriously inflate their numbers too.

It was good that SF people were at the rally yesterday. It's just a pity that it was one of their own who invited Bush over in the first place, it does make their presence at the rally seem like something of a face-saving exercise.

Badly mistaken. Bush was invited by the British Government. Sinn Fein encouraged their members to demonstrate. Don't speculate.

[joejoe]

was gerry and martin out 2 shake bushs hand

[conghaileach]

Badly mistaken. Bush was invited by the British Government. Sinn Fein encouraged their members to demonstrate. Don't speculate.

We've been over this before. (http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showpost.php?p=130501&postcount=23)

[Seán1798]

The Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness also met with George Bush, and raised Sinn Fein’s objections and concerns over the ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.


Have you got a transcript of what was said?

[CMe]

Does no one remember when Orga Shinn Fein did this years ago with a tricolour? I want to say 96? I think Eoin O'Broin was one of them. I am getting old and my memory is fading when it comes to little details. It may have been 99, sometime in the late 90s is what I am thinking. I can't be the only one who remembers?

[Comrade Ryan]

Badly mistaken. Bush was invited by the British Government. Sinn Fein encouraged their members to demonstrate. Don't speculate.

Well Martin and Ian did of course invite him when they were over for the 'investment tour' but leaving that crucial point aside, what is your opinion of the glowing and enthusiastic welcome given by McGuinness to the war criminal that is George Bush?

[belfast rep]

Did someone tell you who was in the city centre???

what?

[robertemmett]

"ogra SF give benefit of the doubt to an imperialist bush collaborator". or "an excercise in looking the other way".

http://www.necn.com/files/2008/06/16/vlcsnap-4693186.jpg

[robertemmett]

in response to recent shifts on PSF foreign policy .. OSF launch anupdate for bedroom walls and day wear. both posters and tee shirt available

contact "OSF Commerical Enterprises"

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2374/2111431075_a2c594c48d_m.jpg

[robertemmett]

the moment when martin outlined concern at Bush foreign policy....

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/images/2007/1208/frontpageimage.jpg

[robertemmett]

or was it the moment when martin told them the one about PSF wanting a united ireland... ? you pick

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/images/2007/1208/frontpageimage.jpg

[Seán1798]

the moment when martin outlined concern at Bush foreign policy....


Clearly he's concerned. What did Bush say in return do you know?

[Seabird]

I cannot believe this thread, instead of anyone praising our comrades for attending this protest they are ridiculed. Are you so pathetic that you cannot see good in anything that is done by Ogra or SF. Yous must be a sorry, miserable bunch of old farts.

[conghaileach]

The Bush visit — what really went on

by Liam Clarke
June 19, 2008

What really happened at that Bush meeting in Stormont? If you listened to Sinn Féin, Martin McGuinness gave George Bush a very strong ticking off. It's lucky we avoided a diplomatic incident.

It was claimed that McGuinness had delivered the same uncompromising message on Iraq as the protesters who were burning the US flag a mile away at the gates of Stormont. Barry McColgan, Sinn Féin's national organiser claimed "A loud and clear message was sent out to George Bush and the world that Ireland rejects imperialism" and Daithai McKay joined the protesters along with around half his fellow Sinn Féin MLAs.

Bush didn't look like a man who had had a hard time when he came out of Stormont Castle slapping Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness on the back and inviting them to the White House.

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16341

[Hessian Peel]

Sinn Fein encouraged their members to demonstrate.

With a few notable exceptions of course.

Sinn Fein's token involvement in any protesting of war criminals like Bush, Blair or Brown is so pathetic it gives one a pain in the face. Who cares how many Shinners were present at the Belfast demonstration or how much effort they put in; a leading member of their party was laughing it up with Bush at Stormont castle.

:eusa_sick:

[Seabird]

To the article from Liam Clarke, please share with us exactly how Bush was to exit Stormont, like a wounded dog that he is? Obviously he knows nothing about a Texan, he left with his head held high, he does not see his mistakes nor will he accept responsibility for them. I don't care if SF beat his ass in their meeting, Bush would have left as if they are ole pals, he's a politician ffs. . . never let them see ya sweat.


enver,

The difference between your post and reality, SF was able to sit down with the man and give them their views on the war, Ogra voiced their views in a civil protest and you are whinging on a web site about on an assumption. . . go figure

[conghaileach]

The difference between your post and reality, SF was able to sit down with the man and give them their views on the war

So you say.

[Seabird]

Not so I say, because they said why is it so unbelievable? Bush is on his way out of office and offers nothing for them, so why do you think they need to playup to him?

[mickyk200]

Not so I say, because they said why is it so unbelievable? Bush is on his way out of office and offers nothing for them, so why do you think they need to playup to him?
It would show that they are sympathizers to American government. Big Barack won't be long behind him you can be sure.

[Seabird]

Micky200,

No that is not what it shows.

[mickyk200]

Micky200,

No that is not what it shows.
I disagree

[Halpo]

SF and OSF become more laughable by the day. On one stage, we see their members running around telling people that Lisbon is bad because it will create a super-state and it will bring us closer to a European Army and we will eventually lose our neutrality. On a different stage, we have Martin McGuinness welcoming George Bush here and telling people how he wants to maintain relationships with the highest level of the political establishment in the US.

The worrying thing for me is that nobody that i am aware of in SF or OSF even questioned this. Surely there is a conflict of interest between Martin McGuinness and OSF as Martin wants to maintain relations with an imperialist power that Ogra are so vehemently opposed to?

[mickyk200]

SF and OSF become more laughable by the day. On one stage, we see their members running around telling people that Lisbon is bad because it will create a super-state and it will bring us closer to a European Army and we will eventually lose our neutrality. On a different stage, we have Martin McGuinness welcoming George Bush here and telling people how he wants to maintain relationships with the highest level of the political establishment in the US.

The worrying thing for me is that nobody that i am aware of in SF or OSF even questioned this. Surely there is a conflict of interest between Martin McGuinness and OSF as Martin wants to maintain relations with an imperialist power that Ogra are so vehemently opposed to?
The hypocrisy would blind you mo chara