What is the purpose of éirígí?

[Tiocfaidh Armani]

I fail to see the need for another organisation on the scene. There is so many that I get frustrated when I see another group set-up when I feel we need unity. I would think the members of éirígí would be best suited to the IRSM so why did they not join up with an existing organisation and set-up their own?

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way I'm just curious.

[Hessian Peel]

Maybe because already existing organisations like the IRSM are lacking in direction and on an organisational level they're a shambles. That's why I now support éirígí over the IRSM, can't speak for anyone else.

[Tiocfaidh Armani]

Maybe because already existing organisations like the IRSM are lacking in direction and on an organisational level they're a shambles. That's why I now support éirígí over the IRSM, can't speak for anyone else.

Why not all join the IRSM and help it and make it better? You have done some decent initatives but you are wasted just being a small little group. Too many smallp groups out there now.

[RisenBelfast]

I'd assume people examined their options and decided that the IRSM did not adequately reflect their politics or views on how to progress the republican project. Though as has been demonstrated éirígí members have been willing to work with the IRSP.

[Cedars]

Why not all join the IRSM and help it and make it better? You have done some decent initatives but you are wasted just being a small little group. Too many smallp groups out there now.

Eirigi are growing and are VERY active, they go out and try to make their voice heard and they sure do know how to compared to other groups currently.

[JPL]

I think éirígí is probably the fastest growing Republican group in Ireland.. And they seem to be very active. I can see why it's attractive to join. Seems like a good bunch of lads.

[RisenBelfast]

JPL,

I think you've probably got one of the main reasons people join after agreeing with the politics - activism. If you want to do it has become pretty clear that éirígí are up for it and will provide a wealth of areas and issues for people to work their asses off on.

[JPL]

Sounds about right a chara. i've alot of respect for éirígí. I think most republicans do

[DublinRepublican]

unfortuneatly the irsm has not got a defined political strategy/policies for unity in the public domain. This is a major set back for the movement, and probably a factor why some of those in eirigi didnt join.

[boiler-1888]

But if eirgi become bigger than PSF then what? As a minority in the North and the unionists under pressure how will eirgi defend the nationalist community againt siege mentality unionism?

[belfast rep]

JPL,

I think you've probably got one of the main reasons people join after agreeing with the politics - activism. If you want to do it has become pretty clear that éirígí are up for it and will provide a wealth of areas and issues for people to work their asses off on.
and sadly its the reverse in Belfast many are seeing who is joining and know their reasons for leaving SF

[RisenBelfast]

and sadly its the reverse in Belfast many are seeing who is joining and know their reasons for leaving SF

I take it SF still don't realise this tired old slur machine wheeled out every time anyone disagrees with them is treated with the contempt it deserves by anyone other than the most obedient party loyalist.

[belfast rep]

I take it SF still don't realise this tired old slur machine wheeled out every time anyone disagrees with them is treated with the contempt it deserves by anyone other than the most obedient party loyalist.
experience , and knowledge comrade,
its not cuddly puppies licking the ego, some cold hard facts also come into the light,
also i would have been pushing eirigi at one point, party loyalist indeed surpised you through that one out

[RisenBelfast]

experience , and knowledge comrade,
its not cuddly puppies licking the ego, some cold hard facts also come into the light,
also i would have been pushing eirigi at one point, party loyalist indeed surpised you through that one out

No you wouldn't, no need to lay it on with a shovel. Now I'll let you play your game of innuendo and slur alone, I've no intention of feeding someone at this lark.

[belfast rep]

No you wouldn't, no need to lay it on with a shovel. Now I'll let you play your game of innuendo and slur alone, I've no intention of feeding someone at this lark.
i am sure you haven't,

[neilhere]

and sadly its the reverse in Belfast many are seeing who is joining and know their reasons for leaving SF

What are there reasons?

[boiler-1888]

But if eirgi become bigger than PSF then what? As a minority in the North and the unionists under pressure how will eirgi defend the nationalist community againt siege mentality unionism?
Any answers?

[Hessian Peel]

Any answers?

What's to answer?

If éirígí becomes bigger than SF the Republican agenda will have come along way in terms of popularity. As for the defence of communities against reactionaries; the people can defend themselves.

Are you going to tell me that this perceived problem with Unionism is a justification for the existence of the INLA/CIRA/RIRA? Are you saying éirígí need a military wing or what exactly?

[Comrade Ryan]

and sadly its the reverse in Belfast many are seeing who is joining and know their reasons for leaving SF

:icon_lol:

[Hessian Peel]

That would be great. Will it happen? They need to run in Loca Elections anyway for a start. Well done to them anyway. :eusa_clap:

:icon_lol: I didn't say it was going to happen.

But sure anything is possible. :)

[Seán1798]

Any answers?

boiler the argument behind your question seems to be that there is going to be pogroms and murders of nationalists because Unionists feel under threat.

How does this fit with your other argument that Unionists feel more secure than ever before because, to use your parrot phrase, "partition has been copper fastened"?

[boiler-1888]

OO is stirring things up. What if broadway was repeated if eirgi become the alternative and overtake PSF.

The union is copperfasted its just the OO want more.

[Tiocfaidh Armani]

Cannot see them making any mark in elections. I don't trust any group that is made up of members who stayed with PSF for so long after the GFA was signed up to - they can't be very principled.

[FTA69]

Cannot see them making any mark in elections. I don't trust any group that is made up of members who stayed with PSF for so long after the GFA was signed up to - they can't be very principled.

Stupid talk, by your logic Seamus Costello wasn't a proper Republican because he stayed with the Sticks for 5 years.

[Comrade Ryan]

Cannot see them making any mark in elections. I don't trust any group that is made up of members who stayed with PSF for so long after the GFA was signed up to - they can't be very principled.

Get a grip.

The IRSP cannot be trusted because their founders stayed with the sticks.

The 32CSM cannot be trusted because they stayed for over a decade after 1986.

éirigi cannot be trusted because they stayed with the PRM after GFA, even though many of them argued against it.

Doesn't leave many avenues open now does it, nor many avenues for growth as you have signed off on the majority on the republican base.

So who is it exactly won't make much of a mark again??

[Jim]

What more do you expect from people involved in politics of the Stone Age, i.e. RSF.

So was gerry and marty wrong to go along with it for the best part of 16 years?

[Jim]

No, they weren't, they moved on when the time was right :)

Time was right?where they waiting on an ideological bus?

[Jim]

I wouldn't call it an ideological bus. But you know what I mean.

I dont know what you mean,explain to me how gerry and marty werent wrong to follow the rsf position for 16 years?

Adams's people approached tom maguire (last surviving member of the 2nd dail) for his approval at the time of the split.

[CMe]

éirigi cannot be trusted because they stayed with the PRM after GFA, even though many of them argued against it.

Who in eirigi argued against it, and where? In public? Or within SF? When?

You have to admit that the fact that members of eirigi stayed with SF not just after the GFA, but after decommissioning and the restitution of Stormont right up until they endorsed the PSNI will give others who saw through SF a long time ago some pause.

This is not to say that change isn't needed and it is good that people in eirigi are finally taking a stand. But it would be helpful to eirigi if it appeared you understood why some would be sceptical, as then you would be able to move to overcome such issues.

Rather than be dismissive or defensive of those sorts of questions or doubts, I mean.

I mean I am even wary of posting this now because I have questioned things about eirigi before, and the reaction I got makes me think it isn't worth the time engaging in constructive discussion, as any hint of critique or contrary analysis will just be dismissed and you open yourself for personal attack if you do.

Anyway for what it's worth, there you go.

[neilhere]

Cannot see them making any mark in elections. I don't trust any group that is made up of members who stayed with PSF for so long after the GFA was signed up to - they can't be very principled.

What about those who left because of decommisioning? and those who left over support for policing?

[manus1916]

and sadly its the reverse in Belfast many are seeing who is joining and know their reasons for leaving SF

every time you open you mouth about eirigi it's slander and it speaks volumes.

how about playing a positve constructive role in the widder republican family instead of your elitist divisive attitude.

as honest republicans pursuing the aims and objectives set out in the proclamation and the democratic program there is no reason why all groups could not find some common ground to work together on and treat each other in a comradly fashion instead of viewing other republicans as the enemy or polictical opponents.

in my view these lies and slander come from a fear that one party will eat into your partys base.... how about addressing the reasons people are leaving instead of placing all your efforts into steering them away from other groups. its rather childish

[boiler-1888]

What's to answer?

If éirígí becomes bigger than SF the Republican agenda will have come along way in terms of popularity. As for the defence of communities against reactionaries; the people can defend themselves.

Are you going to tell me that this perceived problem with Unionism is a justification for the existence of the INLA/CIRA/RIRA? Are you saying éirígí need a military wing or what exactly?
No what i am asking is who will eirigi employ to defend the nationalist community when it is attacked like we have seen in Belfast recently. They seem to be after PSF socialist ground which is fair enough and they seem to have obtained the finances to give them a fair go. It is thier obvious intentions to become a strong politcal party no mention of armed wing. PSF now recongise the RUC as legitimate eirigi does not.

Now if eirigi was to overtake PSF in elections and becomes the strongest nationalist/republican party outside the remit of stormount and giving the fact that siege mentality unionism will see a southern based party an obvious threat to the union then doing what it always does when it feels this way and attacks nationalist areas.

Who will eirigi trust upon to defend places like braodway and the short strand?

[Hessian Peel]

Who will eirigi trust upon to defend places like braodway and the short strand?

Who do you trust to do it?

[Hessian Peel]

They seem to have obtained the finances to give them a fair go.

If you have something to say come out and say it.

[Comrade Ryan]

If you have something to say come out and say it.

Yeah we seme to be back to the glossy leaflets, proclamations and a few banners - really some people set their sights so low.

[sublime]

Perhaps eirigi spend their money on leaflets, posters and campaign material as opposed to rusted metal from Yugoslavia. The critisisms of eirigi from other anti-GFA Republicans smack of nothing other than jealousy. eirigi have a good image and are professional in their conduct, other anti-GFA organisations are a complete shambles from grassroots to leadership.

[FTA69]

[QUOTE]Who in eirigi argued against it, and where? In public? Or within SF? When?

I can only speak for myself but I can safely say I was always a socialist Republican who was on the left of Sinn Féin. I argued against decommissioning, accepting the PSNI etc (I left a few months before the Special Ard Fheis); I also constantly argued against seeking coalition with Fianna Fáil and instead promoted the idea of left-wing unity. The reason I stayed was because I viewed SF as an organisation with massive potential, it had a network up and down the country, a massive international profile and in my view it was becoming associated in the minds of working people as a real vehicle of change. I didn't feel like starting again from the sidelines and thought that SF could be pushed toward a certain direction.

Some lessons are harder to learn than others, the fact I didn't immediately jump (or didn't join in the first place considering my age), doesn't negate the sincerity of my beliefs.

This is not to say that change isn't needed and it is good that people in eirigi are finally taking a stand. But it would be helpful to eirigi if it appeared you understood why some would be sceptical, as then you would be able to move to overcome such issues.


People are fully entitled to question the purpose of éirigi, at the same time éirigi are fully entitled not to lend credence to agendas which seek to portray the party as a SF front or a shower of non-Republicans; there is enough disinformation coming from other quarters without having to put up with it from other Republicans as well.

Many who seem to be continuously probing the party do so in a hostile manner, eg "loaded with cash" etc and other assorted nonsense. Other try and pigeon-hole the party into one of a SF split and bang on about individuals within the party as opposed to recognising the fact that Éirigi is something new, and doesn't want to live in the past.

[RisenBelfast]

Who in eirigi argued against it, and where? In public? Or within SF? When?

You have to admit that the fact that members of eirigi stayed with SF not just after the GFA, but after decommissioning and the restitution of Stormont right up until they endorsed the PSNI will give others who saw through SF a long time ago some pause.

This is not to say that change isn't needed and it is good that people in eirigi are finally taking a stand. But it would be helpful to eirigi if it appeared you understood why some would be sceptical, as then you would be able to move to overcome such issues.

Rather than be dismissive or defensive of those sorts of questions or doubts, I mean.

I mean I am even wary of posting this now because I have questioned things about eirigi before, and the reaction I got makes me think it isn't worth the time engaging in constructive discussion, as any hint of critique or contrary analysis will just be dismissed and you open yourself for personal attack if you do.

Anyway for what it's worth, there you go.

Another person that can only speak for themselves......

While uncomfortable about decommissioning it was something I made very little input to as I genuinely believed only the army should have decided on its own affairs and I was not a part of that side of the movement.

I was deeply uncomfortable with many policy decisions when SF first entered Stormont especially after reluctantly and half-heartedly accepting there may be an opportunity to bring it down from within and permanently destroying any hope of a workable internal settlement. After a while my eyes opened and I say that not only was there an intention to fully participate in the institutions of the OSC but to participate in a way that allowed for the implementation of policies that were anti-worker and right wing. I raised these concerns.

The final nail in the coffin was accepting British law and legitimacy in Ireland via endorsing the RUC. I not only challenged this on a republican basis but on its constitutionality within SF. My views were resoundingly defeated at the Special Ard Fheis, I didn't even waste bus fare attending, and as I started to withdraw from SF they moved further offering coalition with right wing parties in the 26 and altering policy to make them more attractive to gombeen bastards.

I gave up, left and sank into a deep despair.

Then I realised others had picked themselves up, dusted off the socialism and got on with rebuilding socialist republicanism.

My only regret is not copping on earlier. I did genuinely believe they were truly committed to revolutionary socialist republicanism something their actions when gaining any power seem to contradict.

So what's éirígi for? Providing a vehicle for socialist republicans to reengage in political activity and attempt to rebuild a viable organisation to work with other progressive groups or views in putting republicanism back on the agenda.

Thing is I know my reasons aren't representative or typical and others left SF, never joined in the first pace and then ended up in éirígí for different reasons. So the problem resurfaces for you and others that continually ask these questions because the only clarification you can ever get is from individuals as no groupthink occured for éirígí's development.

phew...........

[Jim]

other anti-GFA organisations are a complete shambles from grassroots to leadership.


give us a few examples.

[sublime]

give us a few examples.All of them.

[Jim]

All of them.

That is not what i asked,i asked you for an example of republican groups being a shambles from grassroots to leadership.

[CMe]

So the problem resurfaces for you and others that continually ask these questions because the only clarification you can ever get is from individuals as no groupthink occured for éirígí's development.

You misunderstand me then because what I look for is clarification from individuals, not group-think. So I appreciate these sorts of answers that tell me something that is honestly felt and geniunely come to, rather than being dismissed as someone who is asking out of some nefarious agenda. I hate group think in all its forms.

Thank you by the way for taking the time to give me a considered response. It does help to understand what eirigi is about, even if it's not "group think".

[boiler-1888]

Yeah we seme to be back to the glossy leaflets, proclamations and a few banners - really some people set their sights so low.

Here we go again defcon 5 someone asked a question. Eirgi will now put the shutters up and attack you.

You people really need to sort it out if you cant even be asked a question never mind be critisied.

[RisenBelfast]

Here we go again defcon 5 someone asked a question. Eirgi will now put the shutters up and attack you.

You people really need to sort it out if you cant even be asked a question never mind be critisied.

No, the same silly point on finances was raised yet again. One that assumes éirígí is rolling in cash because it's limited membership manages to self-fund initiatives that make an impact. Instead of treating eirigi's resourcefulness with limited manpower and money as something worthy of suspicion others would be better served on trying to work out how to create similar projects and their own impact with finite resources.

[boiler-1888]

All i said was that eirgi have obtained the finances to challenge SF is that not a complament?

I may have said all of those thing before but who hasnt? Im sure your own members have questioned this in the past. The problem is that eirigi cant annwers questions because it is new as a party and dosent know the answers to many questions because they havent debated them amongst themselves yet.

Maybe becoming a party was a step to soon?

[FTA69]

Here we go again defcon 5 someone asked a question. Eirgi will now put the shutters up and attack you.

You people really need to sort it out if you cant even be asked a question never mind be critisied.

Éirigi isn't participating in this discussion, individuals associated with it are. For instance if I disagree with what you are saying I know that I am simply disagreeing with boiler, not the 32s.

On the issue of money however, you have on a few occasions tried to portray the fact that Éirigi has good publications as something to be suspicious of. Instead of saying fair play on the decent leaflet you insinuate they cost a fortune and as such something fishy is going on. Such innuendo serves nobody at all.

[Liam Lynch]

We've had this finance thing out before. Let's move on or it will only kill the thread.

[boiler-1888]

Éirigi isn't participating in this discussion, individuals associated with it are. For instance if I disagree with what you are saying I know that I am simply disagreeing with boiler, not the 32s.

On the issue of money however, you have on a few occasions tried to portray the fact that Éirigi has good publications as something to be suspicious of. Instead of saying fair play on the decent leaflet you insinuate they cost a fortune and as such something fishy is going on. Such innuendo serves nobody at all.
I moved away from that because it was unfair of me to make such a comment, but dont be using that as brick wall to hide behind debate.

[manus1916]

Here we go again defcon 5 someone asked a question. Eirgi will now put the shutters up and attack you.

You people really need to sort it out if you cant even be asked a question never mind be critisied.

comrade maybe i'm picking you up wrong but are you hostile towards eirigi and if so could you explain why?

[boiler-1888]

comrade maybe i'm picking you up wrong but are you hostile towards eirigi and if so could you explain why?
No i am not, i did make claims in the past that i could not back up. However everytime you try and debate they go all hostile then ignore you, for instance debating broad fronts, ar what point did its members feel that PSF was no longer for them and the refusal of eirigi to speak to the 32csm is a no go zone. Mention the fact that eirgi is well kitted out and suddenly your the devil, its not just me who has this problem others have expressed the same concerns.

[Tiocfaidh Armani]

What about those who left because of decommisioning? and those who left over support for policing?

What about them? They set-up the organisation in reaction to the endorsement of the PSNI, or so it seems.

[Comrade Ryan]

What about them? They set-up the organisation in reaction to the endorsement of the PSNI, or so it seems.

I expect that if you bothered to look into the group you question you'll see they were formed prior to the PRM accepting policing.

[manus1916]

No i am not, i did make claims in the past that i could not back up. However everytime you try and debate they go all hostile then ignore you, for instance debating broad fronts, ar what point did its members feel that PSF was no longer for them and the refusal of eirigi to speak to the 32csm is a no go zone. Mention the fact that eirgi is well kitted out and suddenly your the devil, its not just me who has this problem others have expressed the same concerns.

okay mate just wondering what such confrontations among like minded republicans will acheive in my mind there is nothing wrong with each group tackling a program of work as long as their all heading in the right direction.

i'm curious to know why its of great importance asking at what time did they feel that psf was no longer for them. most of the 32csm membership were all once members of the prm at some stage and i'm sure the 32csm are always receiving new members even as we speak....becasue these comrades reached their decision later than you(assuming your a member) does that make them 2nd rate republians?

[conghaileach]

okay mate just wondering what such confrontations among like minded republicans will acheive in my mind there is nothing wrong with each group tackling a program of work as long as their all heading in the right direction.

i'm curious to know why its of great importance asking at what time did they feel that psf was no longer for them. most of the 32csm membership were all once members of the prm at some stage and i'm sure the 32csm are always receiving new members even as we speak....becasue these comrades reached their decision later than you(assuming your a member) does that make them 2nd rate republians?

You could go even further because RSF might view the 32s as second-rate republicans because they didn't leave in 1986. (Of course there are some differences as éirígí wasn't formed out of an en masse walk-out from SF, but that's beside the point.) Obviously attitudes such as these can be troublesome. Which is why you have the likes of Tony Catney who was involved with the RNU arguing that any republican who is genuine about unity has to be above such recriminatory attitudes.

[focail amhain]

I wonder will anti-GFA republicans ever climb out of the political trenches to seek an understanding on the way forward. Do I care when someone left the PRM so long as they have done so and moved into a constructive republican project. It seems we have a way to get yet before we can overcome the fragmentation and recriminations and move forward to a better place where republicans can begin to coalesces on shared ground.

[focail amhain]

The reasons why a person left PRM is infinitely more important then when. Who is the better republican? A person who left with O'Bradaigh? With Mckevit? Or at another time? It seems to me we prefer to waste time and energy debating these gut wrenching questions rather than exploring positive options to help move us forward.

I know what I am: a Republican. And I don't need, nor do I appreciate, anyone on this forum judging my sincerity.

[neilhere]

What about them? They set-up the organisation in reaction to the endorsement of the PSNI, or so it seems.

I meant do you not trust them? as you said that you didnt 'trust any group that is made up of members who stayed with PSF for so long after the GFA was signed up to - they can't be very principled.'

Do you not trust those who left because of decommisioning, etc? Also Eirigi were set up before Sinn Feins endorsement for policing. I think you should read more about them before coming to silly conclusions about them.

[belfast rep]

I expect that if you bothered to look into the group you question you'll see they were formed prior to the PRM accepting policing.
and check the fact that some of them have had no problem using the PSNI

[Comrade Ryan]

and check the fact that some of them have had no problem using the psni

doubt it.

[belfast rep]

doubt it.

lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history

[Comrade Ryan]

lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history

Your crypic clues aside, I have never said that no-one in eirigi has ever had dealings with the PSNI-RUC.

You said that as yet unknown people in eirigi had no problem using the PSNI-RUC, I doubt that this is true.

Anyone that felt obliged to refer people to the PSNI-RUC as part of certain schemes would no doubt have had problems with the fact that the PSNI-RUC were the only option in certain cases.

However, this is nothing new. These situations existed throughout republican history.

During the leaderships sell of policing they regularly used emotive examples of rape, etc, and asked what should we do?

Same as always, where the republican movement could not solve a problem the women who had the tragic misfortune of being raped was directed towards the RUC.

This is nothing new and does not involve accepting the PSNI-RUC.

SF now accept the PSNI-RUC, work hand in glove with them, invite them into our communities, and better still encourage people to give them infomation on other republicans.

I think thats the departure I reference, your smokescreens are as transparent as your leaderships.

[belfast rep]

[QUOTE=Comrade Ryan;149860]Your crypic clues aside, I have never said that no-one in eirigi has ever had dealings with the PSNI-RUC.
I wrote
and check the fact that some of them have had no problem using the PSNI
youanswered
doubt it.
i think thats clear enough

You said that as yet unknown people in eirigi had no problem using the PSNI-RUC, I doubt that this is true.

Anyone that felt obliged to refer people to the PSNI-RUC as part of certain schemes would no doubt have had problems with the fact that the PSNI-RUC were the only option in certain cases.

However, this is nothing new. These situations existed throughout republican history.

During the leaderships sell of policing they regularly used emotive examples of rape, etc, and asked what should we do?

Same as always, where the republican movement could not solve a problem the women who had the tragic misfortune of being raped was directed towards the RUC.

This is nothing new and does not involve accepting the PSNI-RUC.

SF now accept the PSNI-RUC, work hand in glove with them, invite them into our communities, and better still encourage people to give them infomation on other republicans.

I think thats the departure I reference, your smokescreens are as transparent as your leaderships
and as clear as you attempts to wrap the cloak of ideologic purity around eirigi.
the problem you is , despite all your dancing around the issue, we do do know the history of your members, you know what i say is fact.
and you need to check your facts about now eirigi members.
working hand in hand with the PSNI
inviting them in to communities
and most especially advising people to contact them
and it was a lot more than rape cases,
we all know now that eirigi is prepared to ignore people's history'y to bloster numbers, but lets not it up as something it isn't

[RisenBelfast]

What a red-herring argument.

I also believe some éirigi supporters may have paid taxes, claimed the dole, taken a driving test and one is even suspected of being in possession of a library card.
do theycondemn people for paying taxes, claiming the dole or taking a driving test?
and of course your both getting wound up because you know its fact.
by the a classic example of a red herring, read your above quote

[belfast rep]

that was meant to be an answer and ended up an edit, ta bron orm

[focail amhain]

lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history

Perhaps you could inform us in relation to when CRJ began directing people to the PSNI/RUC? A percise date? This would be interesting to know as the organisations policy before the decision on policing was non committal.

[belfast rep]

Perhaps you could inform us in relation to when CRJ began directing people to the PSNI/RUC? A percise date? This would be interesting to know as the organisations policy before the decision on policing was non committal.
a precise date? wow
i think you you know as well as i do that when CRJ were unable to deal with a issue they directed the person to the relevant agency

[Comrade Ryan]

[
I
youanswered

i think thats clear enough

I didi think it was clear enough myself, but it obviously wasn't clear enough for you.

You said that eirigi members had no problem using the RUC, I said I doubt it.

My statement was quite clear to me and really should have been to you.

I went on to explain it if you had paid much attention.

I quite clearly stated that I never said that no member of eirigi had any previous dealings with the PSNI-RUC, however, I explained the difference between having any dealings with them and accepting them.

You and I both know republicans have had dealings with these bodies for sometime but it never equated to support for them or accpetance of their legitimacy.

That is where our paths part.

You are now involved in a party that wholeheartedly accepts the legitimacy of the PSNI-RUC, no matter how its tarted up.

You are also a member of a party that has condemned any attacks on the colonial police force and calls upon the public to supply this same british police force with information on irish republicans still currently engaged in armed conflict.

This is the departure that matters and it is the clearest departure, which I note you failed to deal with in your reply.

and as clear as you attempts to wrap the cloak of ideologic purity around eirigi.
the problem you is , despite all your dancing around the issue, we do do know the history of your members, you know what i say is fact.
and you need to check your facts about now eirigi members.
working hand in hand with the PSNI
inviting them in to communities
and most especially advising people to contact them
and it was a lot more than rape cases,
we all know now that eirigi is prepared to ignore people's history'y to bloster numbers, but lets not it up as something it isn't

I have never attempted to wrap a cloak of ideological purity around eirigi.

If you recall how this latest offensive by you began, it was something like this:

A poster on here stated that eirigi was set up as a direct response to PSF accepting the PSNI-RUC.

I simply stated that if the poster was as informed as he insinuated he would have known that eirigi had been set up well in advance of this.

That is the fact.

Now you have preceeded to make this into something it wasn't.

You may well be defensive about your party's support for the PSNI-RUC, but that is a problem for you and your party.

I do not obsess over it.

eirigi does not ignore peoples history's to bolster numbers - quite the opposite in fact.

I believe that, unlike others, it doesn't ignore history's to bolster numbers, finances, etc.

eirigi does not accept the PSNI-RUC and as policy neither does its members.

That is the difference, PSF accepts and supports the PSNI-RUC and so, as dictated by policy, does its members.

No amount of smokescreening or dancing around the issue will change that fact.

[focail amhain]

[
I
youanswered

i think thats clear enough

and as clear as you attempts to wrap the cloak of ideologic purity around eirigi.
the problem you is , despite all your dancing around the issue, we do do know the history of your members, you know what i say is fact.
and you need to check your facts about now eirigi members.
working hand in hand with the PSNI
inviting them in to communities
and most especially advising people to contact them
and it was a lot more than rape cases,
we all know now that eirigi is prepared to ignore people's history'y to bloster numbers, but lets not it up as something it isn't

You gereralise the history of eirigi members to make a spurious point. No-one I know has claimed ideological purity for eirigi or its members on this forum or anywhere else. We are aware of individual histories because we expect members to be honest about positions they may have held in the past. You fail to give credit even when people realized, at whatever point in the long difficult process, that they were wrong to hold certain views because you continue to support those views yourself. The people you attack have awakened to the fact that they were wrong in the past, whereas you remains in the black pit of the GFA.

[focail amhain]

a precise date? wow
i think you you know as well as i do that when CRJ were unable to deal with a issue they directed the person to the relevant agency

We all know that much. Some of the issues have been pointed out alreaty in another post. However, this practice in the past did not compromise those who work in CRJ because it was not predicated on engagement. Today CRJ works closely with the PSNI/RUC. Big difference, mate.

[belfast rep]

I didi think it was clear enough myself, but it obviously wasn't clear enough for you.

You said that eirigi members had no problem using the RUC, I said I doubt it.

My statement was quite clear to me and really should have been to you.

I went on to explain it if you had paid much attention.

I quite clearly stated that I never said that no member of eirigi had any previous dealings with the PSNI-RUC, however, I explained the difference between having any dealings with them and accepting them.

You and I both know republicans have had dealings with these bodies for sometime but it never equated to support for them or accpetance of their legitimacy.

That is where our paths part.

You are now involved in a party that wholeheartedly accepts the legitimacy of the PSNI-RUC, no matter how its tarted up.

You are also a member of a party that has condemned any attacks on the colonial police force and calls upon the public to supply this same british police force with information on irish republicans still currently engaged in armed conflict.

This is the departure that matters and it is the clearest departure, which I note you failed to deal with in your reply.



I have never attempted to wrap a cloak of ideological purity around eirigi.

If you recall how this latest offensive by you began, it was something like this:

A poster on here stated that eirigi was set up as a direct response to PSF accepting the PSNI-RUC.

I simply stated that if the poster was as informed as he insinuated he would have known that eirigi had been set up well in advance of this.

That is the fact.

Now you have preceeded to make this into something it wasn't.

You may well be defensive about your party's support for the PSNI-RUC, but that is a problem for you and your party.

I do not obsess over it.

eirigi does not ignore peoples history's to bolster numbers - quite the opposite in fact.

I believe that, unlike others, it doesn't ignore history's to bolster numbers, finances, etc.

eirigi does not accept the PSNI-RUC and as policy neither does its members.

That is the difference, PSF accepts and supports the PSNI-RUC and so, as dictated by policy, does its members.

No amount of smokescreening or dancing around the issue will change that fact.

i have no need be defensive about SF policy
but i see pointing a few facts about eirigi has led a unified ripping of tights.
and what i wrote is fact you may like to pretend it isn't, thats you entitlement

[belfast rep]

You gereralise the history of eirigi members to make a spurious point. No-one I know has claimed ideological purity for eirigi or its members on this forum or anywhere else. We are aware of individual histories because we expect members to be honest about positions they may have held in the past. You fail to give credit even when people realized, at whatever point in the long difficult process, that they were wrong to hold certain views because you continue to support those views yourself. The people you attack have awakened to the fact that they were wrong in the past, whereas you remains in the black pit of the GFA.

and you my friend get the award for the cop out of the year.
you are accepting people not because they some how see the error of their, but they have fallen out with SF not for ideology reasons, some of them were pushing SF startegy until issues like Mc Guiness impacted on their lives.
please don't dress it up as some sort of redemtion

[focail amhain]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: You can spin it whichever way you want but I will be be hiding behind smokescreens or stated 'facts'. I'm very familiar with that old chestnut.

[belfast rep]

We all know that much. Some of the issues have been pointed out alreaty in another post. However, this practice in the past did not compromise those who work in CRJ because it was not predicated on engagement. Today CRJ works closely with the PSNI/RUC. Big difference, mate.

once again a cop out

[belfast rep]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: You can spin it whichever way you want but I will be be hiding behind smokescreens or stated 'facts'. I'm very familiar with that old chestnut.
but you are trying to hide behind smoke screens and rewrite history

[Comrade Ryan]

i have no need be defensive about SF policy
but i see pointing a few facts about eirigi has led a unified ripping of tights.
and what i wrote is fact you may like to pretend it isn't, thats you entitlement

Certainly no tights ripped on my behalf.

I just pointed out the actual acts of the matter.

I answered an ill-informed post claiming that eirigi was set up after the PSF decision on accepting the PSNI-RUC, pointing out that eirigi had been formed prior to that.

You set about a smokescreen, incorrectly stating that members of eirigi, pre-involvement with eirigi no less, had no problem using the RUC.

I stated I doubted it. I doubted that any member of eirigi had no problem using the RUC. Just because, throughout our history, we have had to 'use' the RUC does not mean it was without having problems with it.

Other than that collectively our movements have had no problem using the RUC, ever.

In addition, there is a distinct difference between referring people to the PSNI-RUC where you cannot deal with the problem, as we have always done, and accepting and supporting them.

If you attempt to equate the two in anyways whatsoever, then it would mean that the movement you are involved with always accepted and supported the PSNI-RUC, which we quite clearly know isn't the case.

So this leaves us back the the root difference, which is this.

PSF fully accept and support the PSNI-RUC and eirigi doesn't.

This doesn't imply eirigi have any claims on ideological purity, it simply means that you support them and eirigi doesn't.

Hope that clears up any misunderstanding without putting any ladders in tights.

[Comrade Ryan]

and you my friend get the award for the cop out of the year.
you are accepting people not because they some how see the error of their, but they have fallen out with SF not for ideology reasons, some of them were pushing SF startegy until issues like Mc Guiness impacted on their lives.
please don't dress it up as some sort of redemtion

McGuinness has impacted upon all of our lives, and until he steps aside I hazzard a guess he always will.

[boiler-1888]

okay mate just wondering what such confrontations among like minded republicans will acheive in my mind there is nothing wrong with each group tackling a program of work as long as their all heading in the right direction.

i'm curious to know why its of great importance asking at what time did they feel that psf was no longer for them. most of the 32csm membership were all once members of the prm at some stage and i'm sure the 32csm are always receiving new members even as we speak....becasue these comrades reached their decision later than you(assuming your a member) does that make them 2nd rate republians?


No it does not make them 2nd rate republicans. The differnce is that eirgi cant say what its problems were in PSF. 32csm is clear in why it was created, sovereignty was being sold down the river. For republicans in eirigi it could have been socailism. eirigi is no threat to the 32csm as the people who have joined both orginsations differ in opinion over a few things. However, what is a concern and a fair enough question is the reasoning for eirigi refusal to talk to the 32csm giving its broad front strategy.

[focail amhain]

once again a cop out

There is no cop out. I am being honest in the debate and admit to people having past histories which some, like you, can flag up as a problem. Can you honestly say no other party or organisation shares similar histories? I' m not avoiding your points but rather am attempting to show your ulterior motives for using past histories to attack eirigi.

Let cut to the chase, cara. You are fighting your corner and will use any argument to attack other republicans who you preceive to be a threat to PSF's position. Thats fine.

[belfast rep]

[QUOTE=focail amhain;149941]There is no cop out. I am being honest in the debate and admit to people having past histories which some, like you, can flag up as a problem. Can you honestly say no other party or organisation shares similar histories? I' m not avoiding your points but rather am attempting to show your ulterior motives for using past histories to attack eirigi.
what motives, i am just pointing out that eirigi is the organisation those who left the RM not for idelogical reasons, but issues like McGuinesses

Let cut to the chase, cara. You are fighting your corner and will use any argument to attack other republicans who you preceive to be a threat to PSF's position. Thats finenot any argument, factual ones. stop trying hide behide a personal attack.

[belfast rep]

McGuinness has impacted upon all of our lives, and until he steps aside I hazzard a guess he always will.
an attempt at humour can hide many things, particular little facts about your membership you don't like people to know.

[focail amhain]

[quote]
what motives, i am just pointing out that eirigi is the organisation those who left the RM not for idelogical reasons, but issues like McGuinesses

not any argument, factual ones. stop trying hide behide a personal attack.

:icon_lol: Why would I want to attack you, old china. If your information is as good as you say then you will know there are members in Belfast with long standing opposition to a whole range of issues going back as far as the GFA itself. You choose to focus on other individuals claiming to know their reasons for leaving PSF, as 'fact', when really you are using it to undermine the people concerned.

So who's being abusive, eh?

I really think you need to examine your own position as someone who purports to be a republican and finds himself supporting a party that is now totally absorbed into the British statelet known as northern Ireland. And if you find that you do change your mind about these things, then perhaps we will consider an application. :icon_lol:

[Comrade Ryan]

an attempt at humour can hide many things, particular little facts about your membership you don't like people to know.

Goodness me, I was only having a pop at you because the issue you alude to relates to Magennis's not McGuinness's.

Lighten up, that remark may be a bit sarcastic but its nothing that you haven't done here many times, often to great effect.

There may well be people in eirigi who left following the furore surrounding Robert McCartney's murder, just as there were those that found themselves on the outside of your own movement surrounding the same issue but are now back on side.

Perhaps some were awakened by a strong dose of reality and some weren't.

[belfast rep]

Goodness me, I was only having a pop at you because the issue you alude to relates to Magennis's not McGuinness's.

Lighten up, that remark may be a bit sarcastic but its nothing that you haven't done here many times, often to great effect.

There may well be people in eirigi who left following the furore surrounding Robert McCartney's murder, just as there were those that found themselves on the outside of your own movement surrounding the same issue but are now back on side.

Perhaps some were awakened by a strong dose of reality and some weren't.

i suspect even you know the last line is rubbish,

[RisenBelfast]

Goodness me, I was only having a pop at you because the issue you alude to relates to Magennis's not McGuinness's.


I bet you give away surprise parties too, spoil sport. That had me chuckling all morning.

[focail amhain]

an attempt at humour can hide many things, particular little facts about your membership you don't like people to know.

I seem to remember you played a little word game on me recently. Chill out, man.

[Comrade Ryan]

i suspect even you know the last line is rubbish,

No I don't.

But I think it is entirely reasonable to understand how people may see through a leaderships lie once they have been victim of one.

But maybe its just me.

BTW you can get tights in Primark 2 for £1.

[belfast rep]

[QUOTE=focail amhain;149999]I seem to remember you played a little word game on me recently.
did i

Chill out, man
sound advice, i am a bit uptight today
slán anois

[belfast rep]

BTW you can get tights in Primark 2 for £1.

i know and in many clours

[focail amhain]

[quote].
did i


sound advice, i am a bit uptight today
slán anois

Maybe I should change me mind and give you a hand out here. as we are all so fickle in eirigi.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150001]

Maybe I should change me mind and give you a hand out here. as we are all so fickle in eirigi.
now your just getting weird

[Comrade Ryan]

I bet you give away surprise parties too, spoil sport. That had me chuckling all morning.

Sometimes you just have to spell it out.........correctly.

T'ish!

[Comrade Ryan]

i know and in many clours

Now you're getting there, just a few more deep breaths and we should be totally chilled.

:icon_lol:

[focail amhain]

a little humour goes a long way, especially when we're all stressed out.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;149971]

:icon_lol: Why would I want to attack you, old china. If your information is as good as you say then you will know there are members in Belfast with long standing opposition to a whole range of issues going back as far as the GFA itself. You choose to focus on other individuals claiming to know their reasons for leaving PSF, as 'fact', when really you are using it to undermine the people concerned.

So who's being abusive, eh?

I really think you need to examine your own position as someone who purports to be a republican and finds himself supporting a party that is now totally absorbed into the British statelet known as northern Ireland. And if you find that you do change your mind about these things, then perhaps we will consider an application. :icon_lol:
going back as far as the GFA, now that is a shock.
i see you have taken over the old RSF mantle of deciding who is and isn't republican.
application for eirigi?, i found it hard enough to be around some of your recent recruits when they were with the RM, i am hardly going to join another group with them in it.
oh and i already have had the hard sell from eirigi.

[belfast rep]

a little humour goes a long way, especially when we're all stressed out.
ah but it has to be funny, nothing just something you put a couple of icons at the end of.

[belfast rep]

Now you're getting there, just a few more deep breaths and we should be totally chilled.

:icon_lol:

i think you need to follow your own advice, you nearly put someones eye out with your dummy because some one dared examine that prefect picture which is eirigi

[focail amhain]

[quote=focail amhain;149988]
going back as far as the GFA, now that is a shock.
i see you have taken over the old RSF mantle of deciding who is and isn't republican.
application for eirigi?, i found it hard enough to be around some of your recent recruits when they were with the RM, i am hardly going to join another group with them in it.
oh and i already have had the hard sell from eirigi.

I'm not deciding who's what. That is you specialty. I didn't think political parties had totally friendship based. You met a few people you didn't like, get over it. As for my offer of an application, that really was tongue in cheek. You have no fears there, cara.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150015]

[QUOTE]I'm not deciding who's what. That is you specialty.
what does that even mean.
I didn't think political parties had totally friendship based. You met a few people you didn't like, get over it. As for my offer of an application, that really was tongue in cheek. You have no fears there, cara.
jesus you full of advice.
i have no fears, i already knocked back an offer of membership.

[focail amhain]

i think you need to follow your own advice, you nearly put someones eye out with your dummy because some one dared examine that prefect picture which is eirigi

We don't believe there is such a thing a 'perfect'. 'Perfect leaders', 'perfect
srategies', etc. This is a hard learned lesson form our past experience; so having a past has some value, after all.

Look' I really don't want this to degenerate into something personal, so unless we can pick it up a bit, I don't see much millage left in the discussion.

[belfast rep]

We don't believe there is such a thing a 'perfect'. 'Perfect leaders', 'perfect
srategies', etc. This is a hard learned lesson form our past experience; so having a past has some value, after all.

Look' I really don't want this to degenerate into something personal, so unless we can pick it up a bit, I don't see much millage left in the discussion.
personal ?
at no point have i narrowed down to you as individual, or give advice.
and yes there is a tantrum when others question eirigis 'prefect' vision of itself, this thread is probably more than ample proof of thet

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=focail amhain;149988]
going back as far as the GFA, now that is a shock.
i see you have taken over the old RSF mantle of deciding who is and isn't republican.
application for eirigi?, i found it hard enough to be around some of your recent recruits when they were with the RM, i am hardly going to join another group with them in it.
oh and i already have had the hard sell from eirigi.

You have said this before but I doubt it.

I haven't noticed much hard selling going on.

[Vox Illuminati]

What is the purpose of this discussion? A daft thread, started by someone with a sig that suggests he's no more than 14, just keeps getting dafter. I think that Éirígí could serve the purpose of presenting a coherent, alternative Republican position and wish them every success.

[Comrade Ryan]

i think you need to follow your own advice, you nearly put someones eye out with your dummy because some one dared examine that prefect picture which is eirigi

no-one has painted a perfect picture.

This all started because someone said eirigi was started as a response to SF accpeting policing I pointed out that this was incorrect, whereby you proceeded to go on an attack of as yet unnamed possible members of eirigi.

I think you need to chill out in relation to eirigi.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150015]

You have said this before but I doubt it.

I haven't noticed much hard selling going on.
you haven't, i am surpised.
criticising people who help SF but are not members,
slagging off SF members.
offering people positions in your party, if they join.
they must doing all behind your back

[Comrade Ryan]

i have no fears, i already knocked back an offer of membership.

Aren't we in demand.

seeing as you have taken to hinting around eirigi members identities perhaps you would care to hint around the identity of the person of persons giving you the hard sell and attempting to recruit you into eirigi.

via pm if you wish.

[focail amhain]

personal ?
at no point have i narrowed down to you as individual, or give advice.
and yes there is a tantrum when others question eirigis 'prefect' vision of itself, this thread is probably more than ample proof of thet

I'm only pointing out that these threads can degenerate, that's all.

I can see only one person throwing a tantrum.

[Comrade Ryan]

What is the purpose of this discussion? A daft thread, started by someone with a sig that suggests he's no more than 14, just keeps getting dafter. I think that Éirígí could serve the purpose of presenting a coherent, alternative Republican position and wish them every success.

:eusa_clap:

[belfast rep]

no-one has painted a perfect picture.

This all started because someone said eirigi was started as a response to SF accpeting policing I pointed out that this was incorrect, whereby you proceeded to go on an attack of as yet unnamed possible members of eirigi.

I think you need to chill out in relation to eirigi.
Chill out, in others don't point out any faults in the prefect picture, will you be doing the same in relation to SF?

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150026]
you haven't, i am surpised.
criticising people who help SF but are not members,
slagging off SF members.
offering people positions in your party, if they join.
they must doing all behind your back

:icon_laugh:

go on then fill me in via pm.

This is absolute rubbish.

[belfast rep]

Aren't we in demand.
not any more.

seeing as you have taken to hinting around eirigi members identities perhaps you would care to hint around the identity of the person of persons giving you the hard sell and attempting to recruit you into eirigi.

via pm if you wish.
hinting at identities?
where?

[Comrade Ryan]

Chill out, in others don't point out any faults in the prefect picture, will you be doing the same in relation to SF?

you really need to stop.

No-one has painted a perfect picture of eirigi, despite your insistance that some have.

Please point out where the perfect picture has been painted or give over.

Again I direct you back to where you came in on the offensive for absolutely no reason and without justification.

I have pointed this out numerous times but you have not commented upon it.

Why did you feel the need to do that?

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150030]

:icon_laugh:

go on then fill me in via pm.

This is absolute rubbish.
i think you know it is not
and pm you,i don't think so.

[Comrade Ryan]

hinting at identities?
where?


Here perhaps?


lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history

But do feel free to back up your claims regarding the hard sell, the slagging off, people being offered positions within the party if the join, etc.

I'll wait with interest.

[Vox Illuminati]

i think you know it is not
and pm you,i don't think so.

Moderators derailing threads with innane sh ite. What's that all about?

[belfast rep]

you really need to stop.

No-one has painted a perfect picture of eirigi, despite your insistance that some have.

Please point out where the perfect picture has been painted or give over.

Again I direct you back to where you came in on the offensive for absolutely no reason and without justification.

I have pointed this out numerous times but you have not commented upon it.

Why did you feel the need to do that?
prefect picture? we have this whole discussion because i pionted out a few facts about eirigi,

[belfast rep]

Here perhaps?


lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history

But do feel free to back up your claims regarding the hard sell, the slagging off, people being offered positions within the party if the join, etc.

I'll wait with interest.
you could consult with Risen Belfast on that,
it has already been dealt with

[conghaileach]

lets say a couple of them were in CRJ, and this mean regularly advising people to contact the PSNI, one in particular as a community rep and a member of CRJ was in regular contact with the PSNI.
your new member who used to be an inferface worker, also regular contact with the PSNI, and was a leading supporter in Belfast of the SF startegy until Mc Guiness came along.
The easter parade would another example,
the problem with trying to appear ideologly pure, you shouldn't ignore the fact that others know your memberships history


what motives, i am just pointing out that eirigi is the organisation those who left the RM not for idelogical reasons, but issues like McGuinesses

Look' I really don't want this to degenerate into something personal, so unless we can pick it up a bit, I don't see much millage left in the discussion.

It can't help but be personal, belfast rep's contribution here have been to make insinuations about unnamed individuals in éirígí and to question their political sincerity.

He hasn't actually made a political critique of éirígí yet, as far as I have seen.

[focail amhain]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150026]
you haven't, i am surpised.
criticising people who help SF but are not members,
slagging off SF members.
offering people positions in your party, if they join.
they must doing all behind your back

I totally doubt this. You should really be more careful as a moderator. These are scurrilous remarks which can not be substantiated by you. You're losing the thread, cara.

I would take a step back before you look ridiculous.

[Comrade Ryan]

prefect picture? we have this whole discussion because i pionted out a few facts about eirigi,

No we have had this conversation because you came into a thread attacking as of yet unnamed members of eirigi for no reason.

I have continually pointed this out.

A poster alleged that eirigi was only set up as a response to PSF's decision on policing, I pointed out that this was incorrect and that the group had been set up before that.

Then you came in throwing allegations about regarding unnamed people who you allege are in eirigi having no problems using the PSNI-RUC.

even though this had nothing to do with what we were discussing I pointed out that I doubted it.

And I clearly outlined also that my objection was based on the assertion by you that people who you claim are now in eirigi had no problem using the PSNI-RUC.

I said that republicans throughout our history have referred people to the PSNI-RUC where the republican movement could not solve the problem.

I also pointed out that this was not acceptance or support but necessity and that if it was viewed as anything like acceptance, well then our movements always accepted the PSNI-RUC. Which of course we know they haven't.

This is where all this stemmed from, your ill-advised and ill-tempered intervention.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150030]

I totally doubt this. You should really be more careful as a moderator. These are scurrilous remarks which can not be substantiated by you. You're losing the thread, cara.

I would take a step back before you look ridiculous.
careful as a moderator, what does that mean. but you right they will not be substantiated, that would compromise, the people who have been slagged off for assisting SF
who regular reveal the back stabbing of SF members
and who have been offered positions within the party if they joined

[Comrade Ryan]

you could consult with Risen Belfast on that,
it has already been dealt with

no I'll consult with you if you don't mind, afterall you're the one making the claims.

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=focail amhain;150049]
careful as a moderator, what does that mean. but you right they will not be substantiated, that would compromise, the people who have been slagged off for assisting SF
who regular reveal the back stabbing of SF members
and who have been offered positions within the party if they joined

go one then, who was offered what positions by who.

Allude to it, we know you have no problems doing that with alleged eirigi members.

Otherwise it'll be inserted in the rubbish bin along with claims that eirigi is a SF front, etc.

[belfast rep]

QUOTE=Comrade Ryan;150055]No we have had this conversation because you came into a thread attacking as of yet unnamed members of eirigi for no reason.

I have continually pointed this out.

A poster alleged that eirigi was only set up as a response to PSF's decision on policing, I pointed out that this was incorrect and that the group had been set up before that.

Then you came in throwing allegations about regarding unnamed people who you allege are in eirigi having no problems using the PSNI-RUC


even though this had nothing to do with what we were discussing I pointed out that I doubted it.
of course it has, it actually supported you assertion,

And I clearly outlined also that my objection was based on the assertion by you that people who you claim are now in eirigi had no problem using the PSNI-RUC.

I said that republicans throughout our history have referred people to the PSNI-RUC where the republican movement could not solve the problem.

I also pointed out that this was not acceptance or support but necessity and that if it was viewed as anything like acceptance, well then our movements always accepted the PSNI-RUC. Which of course we know they haven't.

This is where all this stemmed from, your ill-advised and ill-tempered intervention.
ill-tempered, i think you need yto look at how you and others freaked, because some one dared to examine your credentials.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150056]

go one then, who was offered what positions by who.

Allude to it, we know you have no problems doing that with alleged eirigi members.

Otherwise it'll be inserted in the rubbish bin along with claims that eirigi is a SF front, etc.
you can put what you want, in whatever bin you want, but it doesn't stop being factual.

[focail amhain]

[quote=focail amhain;150049]
careful as a moderator, what does that mean. but you right they will not be substantiated, that would compromise, the people who have been slagged off for assisting SF
who regular reveal the back stabbing of SF members
and who have been offered positions within the party if they joined

You would fit the job as a journalist for the Sunday World perfectly. Unnamed sources, unattributable comments, blah, blah, blah. Wise up!

The recruiting procedures in eirigi are rigorously applied and do not allow for the sort of nonsense you refer to.

I warned you that things would degenerate and you are responsible for that with the likes of the above post. Maybe the forum should ask some question about the ability of its moderators to moderate?

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150059]
you can put what you want, in whatever bin you want, but it doesn't stop being factual.

Stop what being factual?

Unnamed people being offered unnamed things by unnamed people.

Hard to find any facts in that.

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150056]

You would fit the job as a journalist for the Sunday World perfectly. Unnamed sources, unattributable comments, blah, blah, blah. Wise up!

The recruiting procedures in eirigi are rigorously applied and do not allow for the sort of nonsense you refer to.

I warned you that things would degenerate and you are responsible for that with the likes of the above post. Maybe the forum should ask some question about the ability of its moderators to moderate?

you really do like giving advice, i can only apoligise for daring to examine the wonderful world of eirigi.
as for your last line
fire away,
but i do think you upset because too many facts about eirigi precedures are being examined/exposed and this contradicts the image with which it likes to portray itself

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150064]

Stop what being factual?

Unnamed people being offered unnamed things by unnamed people.

Hard to find any facts in that.
and yet you know its true, and thats why yourself and others are doing their screaming nana here

[Comrade Ryan]

even though this had nothing to do with what we were discussing I pointed out that I doubted it.
of course it has, it actually supported you assertion,


ill-tempered, i think you need yto look at how you and others freaked, because some one dared to examine your credentials.

My lord you really won't deal with anything will you.

You kicked all of this off with an ill-advised intervention in this thread, coming in with something that had nothing to do with what we were currently discussing.

you proceeded to attack unnamed alleged members of eirigi over their historys and reasons for allegedly being in eirigi.

No-one questioned my credentials, all I seen was someone attacking unknown persons credentials under the cover of deep fog.

You lost the run of yourself on this one i'm afraid.

Still awaiting the facts...

[Comrade Ryan]

but i do think you upset because too many facts about eirigi precedures are being examined/exposed and this contradicts the image with which it likes to portray itself

What facts have been 'exposed'?

You have provided no facts, not a single solitary one, but we're still waiting on something that even resembles one.

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150068]
and yet you know its true, and thats why yourself and others are doing their screaming nana here

No I don't know its true thats why i'm asking, in fact I don't believe it to be true at all.

So in your world facts are:

Unnamed people being offered unnamed things by unnamed people?

[belfast rep]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150068]
and yet you know its true, and thats why yourself and others are doing their screaming nana here

My lord you really won't deal with anything will you.

You kicked all of this off with an ill-advised intervention in this thread, coming in with something that had nothing to do with what we were currently discussing.

you proceeded to attack unnamed alleged members of eirigi over their historys and reasons for allegedly being in eirigi.

No-one questioned my credentials, all I seen was someone attacking unknown persons credentials under the cover of deep fog.

You lost the run of yourself on this one i'm afraid.

Still awaiting the facts...
you fine well no one was talking about your credentials, rather your parties, but good attempt to individualise.
I have already stated the facts, i will assume your mean further proof and i have already answered that.
i will not compromise those who reveal the working of eirigi and its actions

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150070]

No I don't know its true thats why i'm asking, in fact I don't believe it to be true at all.

So in your world facts are:

Unnamed people being offered unnamed things by unnamed people?
no, people being offered position in a party if they would join,
revealing that fact seems to hit a nerve

[belfast rep]

What facts have been 'exposed'?

You have provided no facts, not a single solitary one, but we're still waiting on something that even resembles one.
then you need to re read the whole thread.
i have stated facts about eirigi, you may not agree they are facts, and thats fair enough

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150075]
no, people being offered position in a party if they would join,
revealing that fact seems to hit a nerve

It hits no nerve because it is a baseless unsubstantiated allegation,

The reason I have seized on it is because I know its baseless, you therefore cannot support it, and thus you are left looking rather ridiculous.

You've left yourself exposed on this one mate, seems you are probably more uptight today than you may have thought.

[focail amhain]

[quote=focail amhain;150066]

you really do like giving advice, i can only apoligise for daring to examine the wonderful world of eirigi.
as for your last line
fire away,
but i do think you upset because too many facts about eirigi precedures are being examined/exposed and this contradicts the image with which it likes to portray itself

I'm not screaming. I'm asking you a reasonable question. Where are the facts?

I have reviewed all your posts on this thread and I can't find a single fact.

What I can find, in abundance, are accusations, allegations, false assertions and innuendos.

A little more clarity wouldn't be amiss.

[focail amhain]

I think I will sit quietly and watch you die on your own sword.

Unless you come forward with even more outlandish claims.

[Comrade Ryan]

then you need to re read the whole thread.
i have stated facts about eirigi, you may not agree they are facts, and thats fair enough

No facts have been exposed.

We have seen some foggy allegation thrown at unknown people who may or may not be in eirigi but thats all i'm afraid.

Still awaiting any 'facts' regarding who was offered what by who.

Don't expect any answers though.

[conghaileach]

then you need to re read the whole thread.
i have stated facts about eirigi, you may not agree they are facts, and thats fair enough

Can you point in this thread to these facts that people may not agree are facts at all?

[Comrade Ryan]

still nothing?

i would have thought such readily available facts would have been posted by now.

[focail amhain]

I think he's away to have his head checked. :eusa_clap:

[Comrade Ryan]

I think he's away to have his head checked. :eusa_clap:

Haha either that or he/she is away to get the real Belfast Rep.

They don't usually hang themselves out there like that.

[focail amhain]

You're more clued in than I am on this. Am sitting arguging with a computer, thats all I know. :icon_lol:

[Comrade Ryan]

You're more clued in than I am on this. Am sitting arguging with a computer, thats all I know. :icon_lol:

:icon_laugh:

[manus1916]

Moderators derailing threads with innane sh ite. What's that all about?

mate this could be more than a temper tantrumfrom belfast rep it could point out a re-newed hostility towards the group. like belfast reps mate hugh orde said when an animal is cornered with no where to go it lashes out!

[boiler-1888]

How is eirgi getting on in belfast has it got a cumann/circle up and running.

[focail amhain]

How is eirgi getting on in belfast has it got a cumann/circle up and running.

Yes, indeed it has, and a substantial one at that. eirigi in Belfast has begun a program of work which will be rolled out over the coming months. Its presence in Belfast will become more apparent through a range of activities, so I would say keep a keen eye on developments.

[RisenBelfast]

God this thread deteriorated while I was away.

The main thing I now note, in addition to previous attempts at innuendo is a claim being presented as a 'fact' that unnamed people were approached to join eirigi with the offer of positions within the party if they agreed.

That is utter nonsense and whoever is telling people that is not telling the truth. I'd advise those on the receiving end of this piece of misinformation to ask exactly who claims this and would stand over it because anybody that absolutely insists this is true is not an honest person.

Its a ridiculous claim. I can't believe anyone would buy it.

The simple truth is as per the freely available constitution of eirigi the limited number of 'positions' are all elected roles - elected by the membership. They are not in the gift of anyone. Unless of course someone got offered the position of chief proclamation roller upper.

[boiler-1888]

It would be interesting to see a eirigi candidate in West Belfast.

[focail amhain]

God this thread deteriorated while I was away.

The main thing I now note, in addition to previous attempts at innuendo is a claim being presented as a 'fact' that unnamed people were approached to join eirigi with the offer of positions within the party if they agreed.

That is utter nonsense and whoever is telling people that is not telling the truth. I'd advise those on the receiving end of this piece of misinformation to ask exactly who claims this and would stand over it because anybody that absolutely insists this is true is not an honest person.

Its a ridiculous claim. I can't believe anyone would buy it.

The simple truth is as per the freely available constitution of eirigi the limited number of 'positions' are all elected roles - elected by the membership. They are not in the gift of anyone. Unless of course someone got offered the position of chief proclamation roller upper.

belfast rep got a little carried away with himself. He disappeared very quickly after being challeneged over his insane remarks.

Hate to see threads ending up in the gutter.

[FTA69]

Unless of course someone got offered the position of chief proclamation roller upper.

A worthy and noble position if there ever was one, a position which all members should hold for a while in my opinion!

To be honest I feel the notion of someone lecturing Éirigi in underhandedness, "backstabbing" and innuendo is quite rich coming from some quarters. I'd disregard such nonsense and ask people to question the rationale behind those who peddle it.

[RisenBelfast]

A worthy and noble position if there ever was one, a position which all members should hold for a while in my opinion!

To be honest I feel the notion of someone lecturing Éirigi in underhandedness, "backstabbing" and innuendo is quite rich coming from some quarters. I'd disregard such nonsense and ask people to question the rationale behind those who peddle it.

So you fell for it too? The offer that if you joined you'd be Head of Media Distribution with a Rolling remit. :icon_lol:

[Hildy]

I don't get it! What is the big deal, about a new organization that wants to progress without interference, and produce their policy papers with the membership they have assembled? Any political organization or group that "addresses the negative impact that imperialist policies have had on the development of humanity across the globe and outlines éirígí’s view of the relationship between Ireland and Britain. " should be applauded. Why all the naysayers? We need more proactive groups like this, that share their view and opinions with others! Fairplay to them, and we should all wish them success with their endeavours.

[RisenBelfast]

I don't get it! What is the big deal, about a new organization that wants to progress without interference, and produce their policy papers with the membership they have assembled? Any political organization or group that "addresses the negative impact that imperialist policies have had on the development of humanity across the globe and outlines éirígí’s view of the relationship between Ireland and Britain. " should be applauded. Why all the naysayers? We need more proactive groups like this, that share their view and opinions with others! Fairplay to them, and we should all wish them success with their endeavours.

:eusa_clap:

Kudos points heading Hildy's way.

[belfast rep]

belfast rep got a little carried away with himself. He disappeared very quickly after being challeneged over his insane remarks.

Hate to see threads ending up in the gutter.
actually he had to go a wake, god your arrogance has no limits, i am heading to the funeral now,so don't be thinking otherwise
and belfast rep stands by all that he wrote.
the truth of how you operate really got to you didn't it

[belfast rep]

A worthy and noble position if there ever was one, a position which all members should hold for a while in my opinion!

To be honest I feel the notion of someone lecturing Éirigi in underhandedness, "backstabbing" and innuendo is quite rich coming from some quarters. I'd disregard such nonsense and ask people to question the rationale behind those who peddle it.
of course you would, but go ahead question the rationale,

[belfast rep]

[quote=belfast rep;150077]

It hits no nerve because it is a baseless unsubstantiated allegation,

The reason I have seized on it is because I know its baseless, you therefore cannot support it, and thus you are left looking rather ridiculous.

You've left yourself exposed on this one mate, seems you are probably more uptight today than you may have thought.

and yet you know its reflection of how eirigi operate in Belfast.

uptight not at all, i think the fact all of the eirigi supporters have to jump on to defend themselves proof enough.
me thinks you do protest too much
that must have been some ring around

[belfast rep]

So you fell for it too? The offer that if you joined you'd be Head of Media Distribution with a Rolling remit. :icon_lol:
thats actually not too far from the truth for a mate of mine.
you do there is those who would be close eirigi, who don't like the backstabbing and putting other republicans down behind their backs.

[belfast rep]

Haha either that or he/she is away to get the real Belfast Rep.

They don't usually hang themselves out there like that.

oh its the real Belfast rep alright,
not hanging myself out at all, quite enjoying the reaction caused by myself showing how eirigi operate in belfast.

[belfast rep]

I don't get it! What is the big deal, about a new organization that wants to progress without interference, and produce their policy papers with the membership they have assembled? Any political organization or group that "addresses the negative impact that imperialist policies have had on the development of humanity across the globe and outlines éirígí’s view of the relationship between Ireland and Britain. " should be applauded. Why all the naysayers? We need more proactive groups like this, that share their view and opinions with others! Fairplay to them, and we should all wish them success with their endeavours.
Hildy when you have when there is an active against the reputation of comrades, give me a wee shout.

[manus1916]

this could be more than a temper tantrum from belfast rep it could point out a re-newed hostility towards this group speaks volumes if you ask me. like belfast reps mate hugh orde said when a wounded animal is cornered with no where to go it lashes out!

BR by the way the chair of your belfast executive offered me your job if i came back to sinn fein but im happy being unattached to any party at the minute so don't worry comrade your ok for now

[Vox Illuminati]

Hildy when you have when there is an active against the reputation of comrades, give me a wee shout.

Will you be providing her with a babel fish?

[belfast rep]

Will you be providing her with a babel fish?

i did mention i was heading out to a funeral, so i was in a bit of a hurry, Ta bron orm

[belfast rep]

BR by the way the chair of your belfast executive offered me your job if i came back to sinn fein but im happy being unattached to any party at the minute so don't worry comrade your ok for now[/QUOTE]
fear maith .
offering people jobs to join a party is no more attractive in SF than it is in eirigi.
but your 'ok for now' comment is a bit wierd

[Comrade Ryan]

I don't get it! What is the big deal, about a new organization that wants to progress without interference, and produce their policy papers with the membership they have assembled? Any political organization or group that "addresses the negative impact that imperialist policies have had on the development of humanity across the globe and outlines éirígí’s view of the relationship between Ireland and Britain. " should be applauded. Why all the naysayers? We need more proactive groups like this, that share their view and opinions with others! Fairplay to them, and we should all wish them success with their endeavours.

:eusa_clap:

Yay for commonsense!

[Vox Illuminati]

i did mention i was heading out to a funeral, so i was in a bit of a hurry, Ta bron orm

You might want to repost the comment directed at Hildy then. As it stands it makes no logical sense at all.

[Comrade Ryan]

thats actually not too far from the truth for a mate of mine.
you do there is those who would be close eirigi, who don't like the backstabbing and putting other republicans down behind their backs.

Its not far from the truth for a mate of yours?

So a mate of yours was offered something like head of media distribution with responsibility for rolling duties? Wasn't 1st of April by any chance was it?

Listen, eirigi has made more of an effort not to engage in petty squabbles than anyone.

Its not to say that there aren't personal fall-outs, etc, thats life.

But tell me this, are you supposing that SF is the victim in all of this?

Funny, it seems to me that those who have suffered most are those no longer in SF.

[Comrade Ryan]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150079]

and yet you know its reflection of how eirigi operate in Belfast.

uptight not at all, i think the fact all of the eirigi supporters have to jump on to defend themselves proof enough.
me thinks you do protest too much
that must have been some ring around

No, in fact, it bears absolutely no resemblance to the way eirigi has carried itself anywhere.

Thats the point. anyone in the group or on the fringes will know that this is nonsense.

Lets be clear about what happened here, you went on the offensive, you did, no-one else, it was you.

Then you started throwing wildly inaccurate, unsubstantiated allegations about (read: lies) that have either been started by you or someone else to attempt to defame eirigi and its membership.

To that I would expect a bit of a response, there is no mystery as to why eirigi members or friends would defend themselves, their comrades, and their party.

For you to portray this defence as substantiation of your unfounded allegations is quite bizzare, to be honest.

The mask has slipped and you have well and truely exposed yourself here.

[Hildy]

You might want to repost the comment directed at Hildy then. As it stands it makes no logical sense at all.

BR, this kind of argument is exactly what I thought we as Shinner’s were always trying to avoid, and voiced our opinion against, ffs! Now you are over here in this forum instigating an argument by challenging some unsubstantiated allegations and adding fuel to all this by blaming the Éirigi organization itself?? Until you are positive these allegations have merit, and is coming from the organization itself, as a whole, you should not be so anxious to start this argument. And the fact that the Éirigi supporters on this board are going to jump in to defend their organization should be a given. What? Do you expect them to just sit idly by while you are bashing their concepts, ideas and members? Are these not the same fundamental issues that SF face day in and day out? Everything that has been said on this thread in defense of Éirigi, you and I have said many times about SF! So cop on and stop stamping your foot and start acting like the mature individual you really are. You're doing nothing more than than making our your own organization look less than credible, in an effort to make Éirig’si organization look bad. They are only doing what SF has done all along, and that is get their organization together they way they see fit and if it steps on the toes of others, too bad, so sad! This bickering will backfire on you and produce an unexpected and undesired result, as all Shinner’s can attest to by past experience.

Thanks Vox, but no, I don’t need a ‘babel fish’ to understand this conversation, so wouldn’t work in this case, as I am translating the language just fine. I understand perfectly the message Belfast rep is sending me, and I stand firm in my belief that what he is trying to do here is wrong. I’m bloody well tired of not speaking my mind just because it isn’t in the ‘program’, so to speak. BTW, ‘The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy’ is radical! Loved the book!

And thanks Comrade Ryan, mo chara, I appreciate your help on the matter we discussed.

Cheers, Hildy:)

[Mellows1922]

BR, this kind of argument is exactly what I thought we as Shinner’s were always trying to avoid, and voiced our opinion against, ffs! Now you are over here in this forum instigating an argument by challenging some unsubstantiated allegations and adding fuel to all this by blaming the Éirigi organization itself?? Until you are positive these allegations have merit, and is coming from the organization itself, as a whole, you should not be so anxious to start this argument. And the fact that the Éirigi supporters on this board are going to jump in to defend their organization should be a given. What? Do you expect them to just sit idly by while you are bashing their concepts, ideas and members? Are these not the same fundamental issues that SF face day in and day out? Everything that has been said on this thread in defense of Éirigi, you and I have said many times about SF! So cop on and stop stamping your foot and start acting like the mature individual you really are. You're doing nothing more than than making our your own organization look less than credible, in an effort to make Éirig’si organization look bad. They are only doing what SF has done all along, and that is get their organization together they way they see fit and if it steps on the toes of others, too bad, so sad! This bickering will backfire on you and produce an unexpected and undesired result, as all Shinner’s can attest to by past experience.

Thanks Vox, but no, I don’t need a ‘babel fish’ to understand this conversation, so wouldn’t work in this case, as I am translating the language just fine. I understand perfectly the message Belfast rep is sending me, and I stand firm in my belief that what he is trying to do here is wrong. I’m bloody well tired of not speaking my mind just because it isn’t in the ‘program’, so to speak. BTW, ‘The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy’ is radical! Loved the book!

And thanks Comrade Ryan, mo chara, I appreciate your help on the matter we discussed.

Cheers, Hildy:)

What program are you talking about Hildy ? Can I get a copy ? Is Belfast Reps opinion about the motivations of some of the eirigi membership in this program ?

You're whole argument is nonsense mo chara.

[Hildy]

What program are you talking about Hildy ? Can I get a copy ? Is Belfast Reps opinion about the motivations of some of the eirigi membership in this program ?

You're whole argument is nonsense mo chara.

Mellows, I respect your opinions, but let's not play these semantic games. You and I are both above such things. Your comments are only another example of what is going on here and you know it and I know it. Why is it nonsense? SF plays the same game, they do not have a patent on it! So why are you and others criticising éirígí for it?

[Mellows1922]

Mellows, I respect your opinions, but let's not play these semantic games. You and I are both above such things. Your comments are only another example of what is going on here and you know it and I know it. Why is it nonsense? SF plays the same game, they do not have a patent on it! So why are you and others criticising éirígí for it?

I'm not playing any game Hildy, I think it is ridiculous for you to come on here and scold Belfast Rep like a child because you disagree with his analysis. Belfast Rep is talking about people he knows, he is perfectly entitled to express his doubts over the motivations of whoever he chooses. If he thinks the motivations of some people for joining eirigi are not as clear cut as they are trying to present it, then why should he silence himself for fear of upsetting a few people ?

You've lost me when you say "SF plays the same game, they do not have a patent on it! So why are you and others criticising éirígí for it?"

What game do SF play, and what way are eirigi playing it too ?

[FTA69]

[quote=Comrade Ryan;150079]

and yet you know its reflection of how eirigi operate in Belfast.

uptight not at all, i think the fact all of the eirigi supporters have to jump on to defend themselves proof enough.
me thinks you do protest too much
that must have been some ring around

Ring around? That's only sh*te talk BR, there are about 3 or 4 people on this thread who post on this forum on a regular basis; that is all. There is nobody jumping in anyway.

To be honest I believe your assertions to be complete nonsense, and your accusations of backstabbing are rich considering the amount of it many Éirigi members had to put up with, often by people they may have considered friends and comrades for years.

That's all I'm saying on this matter, this thread is complete b*llocks.

[Hildy]

I'm not playing any game Hildy, I think it is ridiculous for you to come on here and scold Belfast Rep like a child because you disagree with his analysis. Belfast Rep is talking about people he knows, he is perfectly entitled to express his doubts over the motivations of whoever he chooses. If he thinks the motivations of some people for joining eirigi are not as clear cut as they are trying to present it, then why should he silence himself for fear of upsetting a few people ?

You've lost me when you say "SF plays the same game, they do not have a patent on it! So why are you and others criticising éirígí for it?"

What game do SF play, and what way are eirigi playing it too ?

Well you could have fooled me. Au' contraire' Mellows, I'm not scolding anyone, its quite the opposite! belfast rep is the one that is coming on this thread and doing the scolding and finger pointing! So what does it matter if people he knows are expressing doubts over éirígí's motivations?? Which is exactly