How left wing is Sinn Fein?

[Daithí]

Where does people thing Sinn Fein fall on the social Democrat/Socialist/Communist spectrum?

[Irish Republican Patriot]

I don't think it is. I don't believe it is left-wing anymore in any meaningful sense.

[JPL]

I think nobody is truly left or right.. I think people compromise on different issues with different methologies.

For example.

If someone beat up my sister and they got away with it in court, but I knew they did it - I would be very right-winged about it and make sure that they got their punishment.

But other personal freedoms I believe need to be upheld. It really depends on the situation, doesn't it? I consider myself liberal, but no country can survive on left-wing or right-wing policies alone.

[Puddies]

This is how the political compass arranged the free state parties:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/ireland2007.gif

Center-left reformists sounds about right for SF. Certainly not Communist or Marxist.

[broche]

Center-left reformists sounds about right for SF. Certainly not Communist or Marxist
especialkly with that u-turn on corporation tax

[Kat]

hmmm.. reagan democrats i would say...

lets look at them policy wise,

reduction in corporate taxes, supprting the increase of personal taxes(bin tax, etc) siding against labour as in the teachers assistant walk out and unabashedly pro law enforcement....

I would say closer to conservative than left wing.

[JPL]

hmmm.. reagan democrats i would say...

lets look at them policy wise,

reduction in corporate taxes, supprting the increase of personal taxes(bin tax, etc) siding against labour as in the teachers assistant walk out and unabashedly pro law enforcement....

I would say closer to conservative than left wing.

Sinn Fein also look out for the well being of the individual in the community and stand their ground on it. I find most of Sinn Fein members or supporters come from poorer backgrounds..

[Kat]

Sinn Fein also look out for the well being of the individual in the community and stand their ground on it. I find most of Sinn Fein members or supporters come from poorer backgrounds..


thier backround does not make thier policy any less conservative than it is JPL.

[quirk]

Sinn Fein also look out for the well being of the individual in the community and stand their ground on it. I find most of Sinn Fein members or supporters come from poorer backgrounds..

Maybe so but that does not mean that party policy is geared towards those from a poorer background. Many grassroots labour party activists in Britain would also be from a working class background.

[JPL]

Maybe so but that does not mean that party policy is geared towards those from a poorer background. Many grassroots labour party activists in Britain would also be from a working class background.

My point is - they need to continue catering to these voters as the more well-off in the country in general don't care about the worse-off areas.

[broche]

labour party
whose leader idealizes thatcher, some labour party

[Puddies]

My point is - they need to continue catering to these voters as the more well-off in the country in general don't care about the worse-off areas.So what, portray a left-wing image to working class folk while actually acting on behalf of the more "well-off" by practicing capitalist policies? Sounds a lot like the "Labour" movement.

[JPL]

Oh it's easy to conveniently avoiding policies like raising the minimum wage, further tax relief for minimum wage workers, stabilise tax rate for medium earners avoiding high bracket, increasing of family income - and then some, including increased child benefit, maternity benefit, living allowances..

Yeah Sinn Fein really take priority with the wealthy! :hmmm:

[quirk]

Oh it's easy to conveniently avoiding policies like raising the minimum wage, further tax relief for minimum wage workers, stabilise tax rate for medium earners avoiding high bracket, increasing of family income - and then some, including increased child benefit, maternity benefit, living allowances..

Yeah Sinn Fein really take priority with the wealthy! :hmmm:

Giving the working class a few more crumbs from what they themselves produced is certainly not socialist.

[JPL]

Giving the working class a few more crumbs from what they themselves produced is certainly not socialist.

Ah come off it now, that's stupid talk. First it was Sinn Fein weren't helping the worse-off, now it's "oh it's not socialist".

Sinn Fein are doing what they can, based on Ireland's current prerogative to assist the less-well off. You're all just nitpicking.

[Puddies]

Sinn Fein are doing what they can, based on Ireland's current prerogative to assist the less-well off. You're all just nitpicking.So SF isn't capable of fighting the corporations so they decide its best to give them a pay raise? Were they forced into sanctioning teacher pay cuts? What is stopping them from calling for worker ownership of the means of production? Are they afraid of upsetting the capitalists they hope to form a free state government with someday?

Shinners sure like to throw around images of Ché and call themselves revolutionaries, sorry but raising the minimum wage is hardly a revolutionary act.

[JPL]

So SF isn't capable of fighting the corporations so they decide its best to give them a pay raise? Were they forced into sanctioning teacher pay cuts? What is stopping them from calling for worker ownership of the means of production? Are they afraid of upsetting the capitalists they hope to form a free state government with someday?

Shinners sure like to throw around images of Ché and call themselves revolutionaries, sorry but raising the minimum wage is hardly a revolutionary act.

And what is being done alternatevely?

[Puddies]

And what is being done alternatevely?Lol classic line, are you suggesting that lowering the corporate tax and being anti-labor is the only way forward for a party that likes to idolize the Marxist-Leninist known as Ché Guevara?

I don't live in Ireland so I don't know whats being done on the ground, I'm sure someone who's actively engaged in the class struggle over there can explain things to you. I'm more concerned about my subversive activities here on the home front, but I do know that a revolution will never come from above.

The decent thing to do for PSF would be to stop telling people they're a revolutionary party. Unless they're planning on ever putting James Connolly's or Ché's policies into practice, but they seem to be more interested in winning bourgeois elections.

[Mellows1922]

I don't live in Ireland so I don't know whats being done on the ground, I'm sure someone who's actively engaged in the class struggle over there can explain things to you.

Sinn Fein are the ones in on the ground working with disadvantaged and working class communities the length and breath of this island, the IRSM are in there too.

But I'll take no ****ing nonsesnse from any other Republican organisation with their empty words about doing their bit for the working man, because they are all noticable by their absence in the communities that need them. Sinn Fein are not.

[Mellows1922]

hmmm.. reagan democrats i would say...

lets look at them policy wise,

reduction in corporate taxes, supprting the increase of personal taxes(bin tax, etc) siding against labour as in the teachers assistant walk out and unabashedly pro law enforcement....

I would say closer to conservative than left wing.


hmmm, lets float in lala land why don't we.

Reagan democrats indeed, if that was meant to rile me Kat, it certainly worked, lol.

Take a look at the organisation you support a little closer before you start casting stones at me. That organisation has never lifted a finger to help those that need it in the twenty years that it's existed, much easier to sit back and rud the auld ego while taking about how legitimate they are than getting out and doing some work on the ground that would actually be of legitimate help to those who require it.

[JPL]

Lol classic line, are you suggesting that lowering the corporate tax and being anti-labor is the only way forward for a party that likes to idolize the Marxist-Leninist known as Ché Guevara?

I don't live in Ireland so I don't know whats being done on the ground, I'm sure someone who's actively engaged in the class struggle over there can explain things to you. I'm more concerned about my subversive activities here on the home front, but I do know that a revolution will never come from above.

The decent thing to do for PSF would be to stop telling people they're a revolutionary party. Unless they're planning on ever putting James Connolly's or Ché's policies into practice, but they seem to be more interested in winning bourgeois elections.

Exactly, you've no idea. I've been to cumanns to and listened to whats being discussed, and I can assure you - the communities are well represented and spoken for by Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein do everything they can in their power to help the not-so-well-off communities.

Why cast the first stone when you're really unsure?

[Puddies]

Sinn Fein are the ones in on the ground working with disadvantaged and working class communities the length and breath of this island, the IRSM are in there too.Fair enough I wouldn't doubt it, but does SF ever plan on overthrowing the capitalist class or do you expect to reform them out of existence? What is your stance towards Connolly and Guevara's beliefs that forcible overthrow is the only way to bring about revolution?

[JPL]

How can a party with a minority say alter an entire nations way of living? Wise up man. It's impossible, but with what power they have - they are doing what they can and I assure you it's for the benefit of the disadvantaged and not for the benefit of the corporate crowd.

[Puddies]

Exactly, you've no idea. I've been to cumanns to and listened to whats being discussed, and I can assure you - the communities are well represented and spoken for by Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein do everything they can in their power to help the not-so-well-off communities.

Why cast the first stone when you're really unsure?I don't doubt that most rank and file SF activists are genuine in their beliefs, but the actions the party has taken while in government are counter-revolutionary. It works the same way in any country, there isn't anything special about Ireland that makes constitutional politics a road to revolution.

[Puddies]

How can a party with a minority say alter an entire nations way of living? Wise up man. It's impossible, but with what power they have - they are doing what they can and I assure you it's for the benefit of the disadvantaged and not for the benefit of the corporate crowd.Lowering of the corporate tax is for the benefit of the disadvantaged?

[JPL]

Lowering of the corporate tax is for the benefit of the disadvantaged?

I've already outlined a NUMBER of areas Sinn Fein are lobbying for to benefit the disadvantaged. All far superseeding any negative impact lowered corporate tax would have.

[MarkyMark]

Id say centre left

[Puddies]

I'll say again I know that SF believes what they're doing is right, but the strategy of relying on electoral politics is doomed to either outright failure or failure with the illusion of victory.

[Puddies]

I've already outlined a NUMBER of areas Sinn Fein are lobbying for to benefit the disadvantaged. All far superseeding any negative impact lowered corporate tax would have.So why do they support lowering the corporate tax anyway? Being socialists shouldn't they support the abolishment of corporations full stop?

[JPL]

So why do they support lowering the corporate tax anyway? Being socialists shouldn't they support the abolishment of corporations full stop?

How about I ask them? I don't know the reasoning behind every nuance of their policies. All I'm saying is that they shouldn't be scrutinized for minor things when they are lobbying for much more positive things.

[Puddies]

How about I ask them? I don't know the reasoning behind every nuance of their policies. All I'm saying is that they shouldn't be scrutinized for minor things when they are lobbying for much more positive things.This isn't a minor thing, they are marketing themselves as a revolutionary party and the best you've got is lobbying for a higher minimum wage. Corporate capitalism and socialist revolution don't mix.

[Tomáis Joad]

That party compass is crap, I knew it the minute I saw how low we were on the socially liberal side. Whoever did it was not particularly aware of our policy.

I did the test just there based on SF policy and probably affected a little by my own personal view but not much was very suprised at just how left it came out. About 4 points off my own one, -1 on economy, -3 on social but still pretty happy. Plus the socialist are much more economically left than represented their too.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-8.75&soc=-5.59

[Mellows1922]

So why do they support lowering the corporate tax anyway? Being socialists shouldn't they support the abolishment of corporations full stop?

The party do not support the lowering of corporate tax, it was stupidly handled pre election and it was a mistake, such a large departure from policy couldn't happen without the say so of the party via Ard Fheis.

It was talked about in terms of harmonizing the tax across the thirty two counties, it was a badly handled position.

[Mellows1922]

I'll say again I know that SF believes what they're doing is right, but the strategy of relying on electoral politics is doomed to either outright failure or failure with the illusion of victory.

Tell that to Chavez.

[Puddies]

The party do not support the lowering of corporate tax, it was stupidly handled pre election and it was a mistake, such a large departure from policy couldn't happen without the say so of the party via Ard Fheis.

It was talked about in terms of harmonizing the tax across the thirty two counties, it was a badly handled position.Kk, did it have anything to do with GA saying the "Celtic Tiger" should be brought to the north?

[Daithí]

So why do they support lowering the corporate tax anyway?
Wrong. The original line was to raise it to 17.5%. That was dropped 2 weeks before election which was lunar.

Mellows - What do you think of the argument that MNCs would leave if tax was raised.

[Mellows1922]

Kk, did it have anything to do with GA saying the "Celtic Tiger" should be brought to the north?

I'm not aware of Adams saying that.

[Puddies]

Tell that to Chavez.But there is still a powerful ruling class in Venezuela, the Bolivarian Revolution is trying to prepare the working class for the ultimate destruction of the former. Does SF plan to do the same?

Also Venezuela is a 3rd world country, the crumbs the masses get there were and still are quite a bit smaller than what the Irish working class gets today. Its hard to propagandize people who are living in dirt poverty.

Best of luck with your elections but I don't see SF getting more than 10% of the vote in the south unless they move even further right than they already have.

[Daithí]

Mellows - What do you think of the argument that MNCs would leave if tax was raised.

[Puddies]

I'm not aware of Adams saying that.I remember reading something which quoted him as saying theres no reason why the "benefits" can't be enjoyed on both sides of the border. I think it did have something to do with achieving parity with the south as you were saying.

[redflag32]

I think nobody is truly left or right.. I think people compromise on different issues with different methologies.

For example.

[QUOTE]If someone beat up my sister and they got away with it in court, but I knew they did it - I would be very right-winged about it and make sure that they got their punishment.



What makes you think a socialist state would allow people get away with crimes against society?

[Puddies]

Dug it up on the Saor Eire forum:

ADAMS CALLS FOR ALL-IRELAND ECONOMY 02/28/07 14:34 EST

Loyalists in Belfast should be able to benefit from an
all-Ireland Celtic Tiger economy, Gerry Adams has said today.


At the launch of Sinn Fein`s Assembly Election platform in
Belfast`s Odyssey Arena, Mr Adams also urged the rival
Democratic Unionists to send British ministers home from
Northern Ireland for good.


As he surveyed the city`s docks, the West Belfast MP
revealed: "I was saying to Martin (McGuinness) just now:
look at this place here. What price the Union now? When
there used to be a shipbuilding industry and a linen
industry there might have been some value in having a
connection with the Union, when it was an empire."


"Our argument is if there is a Celtic Tiger (in the Irish
Republic), why should it stop at the border? Why cannot it
come into East Belfast?"


"Is anyone telling me the loyalist people of East Belfast
are not going to accept jobs and the economic dividends that
would come out of the Celtic Tiger if there is a 32 County
Celtic Tiger?"


Sinn Fein`s platform called for the harmonization of
Corporation Tax levels in Northern Ireland and the Irish
Republic, a single currency and the amalgamation of inward
investment agencies on both sides of the border.


It was published as Irish Finance Minister Brian Cowen
outlined plans for five all-island funds at an event in
Derry City this morning.


Mr Cowen told business leaders there that his government was
keen to work with a new Stormont power sharing executive and
the British Government on cross-border funding for
education, skills and innovation; energy research including
renewable and sustainable energy; regional development;
tourism development; and poverty, social inclusion and
community infrastructure.


As he also spelt out the Irish Government`s plans for future
investment in infrastructural projects north of the border,
the minister declared: "We are currently at an exciting
juncture in our island`s economic, political and social
development. The right policies, the right investment and
hard work will maximise the potential of Ireland."


"These Assembly elections provide the opportunity for the
electorate of Northern Ireland to put the right people in
place to deliver on these opportunities."


The Irish Government`s investment plan was welcomed by
nationalist SDLP leader Mark Durkan who said it was the mark
of true patriotism.


"For the SDLP, patriotism has never been about raising
standards on telegraph poles," the Foyle MP said.


"True patriotism is about raising standards in our public
services, building better infrastructure, growing a stronger
economy, creating better prospects, giving young people hope
for a better future, fulfilling the promise of a better
Ireland for all."


"That`s what this National Development Plan can deliver.
That is real nation building in action."
www.iais.org

http://saoreire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=239

[JPL]

What makes you think a socialist state would allow people get away with crimes against society?

Where did I mention a socialist state? My point was outlining that nobody is truly left or right winged and that each methology is required in different scenarios.

[Tomáis Joad]

RedFlag

Of course people in a socialist state would still be able to get off having committed a crime sometimes.

Its not some magical existence where all is right and no one can make a mistake, in that case nobody would commit crimes in the first place.

What do you think socialism is?

[Mellows1922]

Mellows - What do you think of the argument that MNCs would leave if tax was raised.

I think a lot of it is scaremongering, but ultimately Ireland has a lot more to offer than a cheap rate of tax incentive, there reasons for being here in the first place are a lot wider than simply getting a good rate of taxation.

[Tomáis Joad]

I think its the IMF or something that has this list of the top things a company benefits from in a country its set up shop in. Tax barely even figures, the big ones are good infrastructure, healthcare, education and low inflation.

Interesting that the IMF continuously attempt to destroy these things in latin america and other places.

Also that so many countries ignore these guidelines.

[redflag32]

Where did I mention a socialist state? My point was outlining that nobody is truly left or right winged and that each methology is required in different scenarios.

Well you were insinuating that to be left wing would mean letting people get away with this crime,so i asumed you ment uder socialism. My argument still stands though,why would someone who is left want to let people away with crime?

[redflag32]

Of course people in a socialist state would still be able to get off having committed a crime sometimes.

I know,i never said they wouldnt. The psoter i quoted was making the remark that it be be a right-wing action if you wanted someone to pay for commiting crie as apposed to left wing. was making the arguemnt that under socialism (as far left as you can go) People would still pay for thier crimes,i never said people would NEVER get away with crime.

Its not some magical existence where all is right and no one can make a mistake, in that case nobody would commit crimes in the first place.

No that would be communism,socialism is the transition to a communist way of life so therefore you would still have alot of problems bleeding over from the old capitalist way of life for some generations after socialism as declared.

What do you think socialism is?

I take it thats ment to be a joke?

[Tomáis Joad]

I didnt assume anything but some other lad rightly state vigilantism isnt very left wing as it is a rejection of the democratic decision of a jury and denial of ones right to a fair trial. Vigilantism is especially right wing in a socialist state where hopefully corruption and undemocratic courts would be less likely

[conghaileach]

What is stopping them from calling for worker ownership of the means of production?
Because they're not not prone to ultra-leftist sloganeering? They're not the SWP after all.

[JPL]

Well you were insinuating that to be left wing would mean letting people get away with this crime,so i asumed you ment uder socialism. My argument still stands though,why would someone who is left want to let people away with crime?

Why, is vigilantism embraced in a leftist society? Did I miss something? Your skipping over my main point. That nobody can be truly leftist or right-winged consistently on all scenarios.

[redflag32]

RedFlag

Of course people in a socialist state would still be able to get off having committed a crime sometimes.

Its not some magical existence where all is right and no one can make a mistake, in that case nobody would commit crimes in the first place.

What do you think socialism is?

I didnt assume anything but some other lad rightly state vigilantism isnt very left wing as it is a rejection of the democratic decision of a jury and denial of ones right to a fair trial. Vigilantism is especially right wing in a socialist state where hopefully corruption and undemocratic courts would be less likely

I was refering to the democratic way of dealing with punishment for crime not vigilantism.

[redflag32]

That nobody can be truly leftist or right-winged consistently on all scenarios.

Ofcourse they can, why cant they? What scenarios do you ean though,social,civil or law?

[Puddies]

Ofcourse they can, why cant they? What scenarios do you ean though,social,civil or law?I think he said he's a liberal and would therefore reject ideological struggle..

"We stand for active ideological struggle because it is the weapon for ensuring unity within the Party and the revolutionary organizations in the interest of our fight. Every Communist and revolutionary should take up this weapon.

But liberalism rejects ideological struggle and stands for unprincipled peace, thus giving rise to a decadent, Philistine attitude and bringing about political degeneration in certain units and individuals in the Party and the revolutionary organizations."

[BunyipDude]

I think you have to consider how left-wing Sinn Fein was and how left-wing they are now. Those are two very different issues.

Before they started moving down the constitutional route, the Provos were revolutionary even if they weren't Marxist. They were, after all, seeking the creation of an all-island socialist republic by violent revolution, precisely what the Stickies were too chicken**** to carry out.

Nowadays, I tend to think of them as more of a center-left party, or at least that's how they seem to sell themselves based on their current initiatives. I do find some of their policies' leftism questionable, especially their apparent stance on abortion.

I also find it curious that Sinn Fein maintains an association with the European United Left/Nordic Green Left, which is a grouping of European far-left/communist parties. Anyone know when and how this relationship came about?

[duggie-89]

i think SF are left but more to the centre than in the past.

i also think we shud move more to the left as when ever the celtic tiger begins to crumble and shake its the left parties who will be in the best place to point out the facts that a more socialist state is the way forward and SF cant do that if there precieved to be following in the shadows of FF and all the multi nationals.

wel i thinbk alot of its grassroots supports are left wing as they have developed wit the aim of creating a 32 county socialist republican so it has been a long est. aim.

so i would say that SF are currently centre left but its to centre for me

[Erin_go_bragh]

i think SF are left but more to the centre than in the past.

i also think we shud move more to the left as when ever the celtic tiger begins to crumble and shake its the left parties who will be in the best place to point out the facts that a more socialist state is the way forward and SF cant do that if there precieved to be following in the shadows of FF and all the multi nationals.

wel i thinbk alot of its grassroots supports are left wing as they have developed wit the aim of creating a 32 county socialist republican so it has been a long est. aim.

so i would say that SF are currently centre left but its to centre for me

Whenever I speak to grassroots activists they all seem like socialists and are all in favour of teh establishment of a socialist republic. I think the offical public image of sinn fein seems to have moved on closer to the centre. I dont support the idea of moving to the centre. They should have stuck by their guns at the last 26 county elections.

[Sonny]

That party compass is crap, I knew it the minute I saw how low we were on the socially liberal side. Whoever did it was not particularly aware of our policy.

I did the test just there based on SF policy and probably affected a little by my own personal view but not much was very suprised at just how left it came out. About 4 points off my own one, -1 on economy, -3 on social but still pretty happy. Plus the socialist are much more economically left than represented their too.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-8.75&soc=-5.59

This says it all really: "...probably affected a little by my own personal view".
That's why that earlier Political Compass post in this thread did a better job objectively assessing PSF as left-authoritarian or Stalinist for short. After all, like North Korea, PSF has dear leaders for life who base their top-down communications and policy structure on "democratic centralism" which is just an old Soviet euphemism for elitist authoritarianism. As such, like any elitist run political organization...its leadership is more easily corrupted and coopted by out-side forces. That's why MI5 & MI6 put so much stock into counter-insurgency programs in Ireland and Iraq to name just a few places. PSF was easy pickings...and the proof is in the pudding since they now stand up and for English rule in Ireland until the Brits say otherwise. Such a deal...for some people anyway.

[Joseph Pariah]

Sinn Féin are as Socialist as Bertie Ahern.

[Diarmuid]

Here is an interesting diagram that seeks to place the Irish political parties on a two dimensional political spectrum:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland

As far as that analysis goes - in terms of social issues, Sinn Fein is the more progressive out of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail albeit just.

Economically speaking they're not quite where worldwide socialists are (typically 3/4 of the way to communism) but still maintain a socialist-like doctrine.

In any case they're better placed than Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.

[Diarmuid]

That party compass is crap, I knew it the minute I saw how low we were on the socially liberal side. Whoever did it was not particularly aware of our policy.

I did the test just there based on SF policy and probably affected a little by my own personal view but not much was very suprised at just how left it came out. About 4 points off my own one, -1 on economy, -3 on social but still pretty happy. Plus the socialist are much more economically left than represented their too.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-8.75&soc=-5.59

Policy is one thing, but I daresay the makers of that test plotted the parties also on what they actually do when in power.

E.g. Greens might bang on about all the left wing doctrine in the world, but when they finally get into power, e.g. on councils etc, what changes?

This is where I am:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-7.50&soc=-0.21

[conghaileach]

Of all the major parties in Ireland Sinn Féin are definitely the most left-wing. But that's not saying much, is it?

The party did itself damage by dorpping its economic policies (or "proposals") just before the general election in the Free State. Despite the attempts of some to move the party back to those kinds of positions, as seen in the debate in An Phoblacht began by Eoin Ó Broin, it seems from that debate that the more conservative elements have an upper hand in the leadership. Anyone with an ounce of sense though can see that trying to mimic Fianna Fáil will be disastrous for SF.

[Spartakist]

Where does people thing Sinn Fein fall on the social Democrat/Socialist/Communist spectrum?

In the european parliament Sinn Fein is allied with communist and socialist parties of various backgrounds.

I don't think Sinn Fein is socialdemocratic or communist. Its a leftwing socialist party without a marxist program.

[duggie-89]

yea dats da problem alot of ppl are looking at SF and seeing der allied with communist in europe and back home der econmic policy is seen as being wishy washy. i clear stance has to be made and stuck by, give us some creadbility.

after all da southern election was down til economy and who was goin til do the best by it and with a ever changin policy how do u expect ppl to vote 4 ye

[Vox Populi]

The most important thing is votes not any form of a consistent and coherent economic policy which was altered to jump into bed with Fianna Fáil?

[Spartakist]

yea dats da problem alot of ppl are looking at SF and seeing der allied with communist in europe and back home der econmic policy is seen as being wishy washy. i clear stance has to be made and stuck by, give us some creadbility.

after all da southern election was down til economy and who was goin til do the best by it and with a ever changin policy how do u expect ppl to vote 4 ye

Shaking hands and trading smiles with Fidel and Bush looks a bit schizophrenic alright. But there is no alternative in Ireland at the moment and Sinn Fein has a lot of good and committed socialist activists.

[Hildy]

After reading several books on this subject, I believe Sinn Fein cannot be categorized into one "type". SF has always had the ability to change with the times, I think today, that SF has shown both Left Wing and Right Wing views.....and has been successful in combining the two to be a "niche" party that apeals to the populist voters without the ideology baggage that usually comes with it.

However, diametrically, SF will sacrifice popular interests in favor of party unity, i.e., shared policing. SF as an organization has come a long way in its policies and development from the far Left to some similar actions and beliefs of the Right. These are shown in the attitudes and policies regarding , anti-EU policies, which keep it in the middle, while at the same time, SF's immigrant and minority rights, a strong equality agenda, funded education, the Irish/Gaelige Language, and the unity movement keep it firmly tied to the Left. One may conclude that nationalism takes preference. It also shows that these populist views may be the means to the nationalist end.

The same can be said that the RR (Radical Right) is not always right wing. Many of the Unionist views are leftist. So given all these major shifts, it is very difficult to categorise any Party, especially one such as SF that is constantly growing and changing in order to tailor its campaigns to be in sync with the Republican supporters it serves.

1970s Gerry Adams rejected the idea that Sinn Féin was or should be an extreme-left organisation, declaring ‘There is no Marxist influence within Sinn Féin. I know of no one in Sinn Féin who is a Marxist or would be influenced by Marxism’ (Murray and Tonge 2005: 152). By the mid-1980s Adams claimed that socialism, never a popular ideology in Ireland, was not on the agenda (*Maillot 2005: 104). From the early 1980s an electoral strategy was pursued and Sinn Féin moved to moderate its public statements to make them more acceptable to the broader nationalist community in Northern Ireland.

*Excerpt taken from New Sinn Féin: Irish republicanism in the twenty-first century. Maillot, Agnés. 2005, London: Routledge.




Another excerpt I found very relevent:



Conclusion

The brief analyses of Sinn Féin’s ideology, development, policy, supporters’ attitudes and organisation, though showing some similarities with radical right parties, but it is too explicitly and self-avowedly in favour of immigrants’ rights to be called RR. The leaders of Sinn Féin seem to have genuine left-wing beliefs, e.g. Mitchel McLaughlin (*Moloney p. 80). However the similarities with the radical right persist. Hooge et al (2002) in attempting to explain attitudes to the EU have argued (convincingly) that the left-right definition of politics is essentially meaningless to understanding attitudes to the EU. They argue that parties can be categorised into two types: GAL or TAN. These are Green, alternative, libertarian parties and traditional, authoritarian, nationalist parties. TAN parties are more likely to be anti-European. Sinn Féin certainly falls into the TAN type of parties.

One of the reasons for this puzzling relationship is that the radical right is not consistently right-wing. Many of the BNP policies are leftist. In fact it seems that RR parties are a mix of populism and violent nationalism, and in this way Sinn Féin can fit more neatly into the same category......

There needs to be more analysis of the ‘radical right’ and their actual programmes. Because data is not blind-tested, it may tend to reproduce conventional wisdom and biases. Expert surveys suffer the same problem. Given the major shifts that appear to be happening in party system throughout Europe, a different way to measure party policy and categorise party types is needed. In Ireland research on the local campaigns of parties would be useful to see if candidates and parties tailor campaigns locally even if these are out of sync with the national campaign.

excerpt taken from: 2003. Estimating Irish party policy positions using computer wordscoring: The 2002 election - a research note. Irish Political Studies 18 (1):97-107. Benoit, Kenneth, and Michael Laver.

*Moloney, Ed. 2002. A Secret History of the IRA. London: Allen Lane.

[Vox Populi]

A political party is a manfestation of a class interest. It is bound to serve only one class. Sinn Féin is another establishment ruling class party that has been fully embraced by and has become part of the system.

[KillinSnakes]

SF is hard to describe as it's a mix of different tendencies and ideas. It's clear that right now the conservative and bourgeois (one comrade even said the leadership has a 'kulak mentality', in other words, rich peasants) side is running the show, but there are certainly left wing elements who've played a significant role in the workers' movement within its ranks. Yet they've also absorbed careerist, castle catholics.

[socialist1974]

Provisnal sinn fein are capitialists. they portray their selves as left wing socialists. when they contiue to capitialise the working class of ireland.

for example : They accepted water charges putting pressure on working class people

: Nipsa a working class organisation and they cut thier wages


so Provisional shame fein are completely right wing softys

[ártybhoy]

I thought the irps where the die hard commies?