Why won't the U.S. withdraw from the War in Iraq?

[Hildy]

if your facts are right then why do you guys keep voting in the reason your in the war????


This question was asked from another thread.....I thought it was a very good subject for its own thread! A question that the whole country is asking as well......when its clear the majority of americans are against this war, why aren't we withdrawing immediately? The American casualties alone, should be enough reason, as well as the civilian casualties suffered there!

Lets face it......congress has to act to get us out of there, and why aren't they? Especially when the majority of people are demanding we withdraw immediately! I think it has a lot to do with the fact that congress is being bought. Read this article and see what you think....

Could it be that our soldiers died to enrich five or six International Oil Companies (Four of them American)? Or that possibly a million Iraqis suffered the same fate for the same reason? You might recall that President Bush claimed that one of the Benchmarks the Iraqi Government must meet is a deal to share the Oil revenues. What he didn't say is with whom they, the Iraqis, will have to share. Seems like it's not the Iraqis.

This is according to a speech by Dennis Kucinich last week, well not all of it was a speech; some of it was a reading of the Oil deal that Bush is saying Iraqi must sign. And was the reported deal ever an eye opener!

Seems that those International Oil Companies (can you say EXXON, MOBILE, and BP for starters), stand to pluck the Iraqi people for about $21 Trillion. Folks that's twenty one thousand BILLION. In perspective, that's about double the United States current cash debt, and a little over 40% of the accrued National Debt of $50 Trillion. Figured another way, it's about $70,000 for every American currently alive. And it will all go to about six Oil companies. Well not all, there's the Congress to be bought off, actually it seems they already have, but they still need to get a little more of the harvest.

These are the guys that brought you $3.25 gas and rising. Once they corner the Oil market what might gas cost? How many of your family members are you willing to send to their death so that these Oil companies might get just a little bit richer? For every Human being who has died, American Soldier and Iraqi Citizen, these companies stand to rake in about $21,000,000. And just think, their cohorts got to furnish the War materials, and they made off with upwards of a Trillion dollars already. Damn, what a profitable business this war mongering is! For the few that is. For us common folk, it's deadly.

How did I come to these figures? Well according to the Oil deal that Bush says must be signed, Kucinich reports that the deal requires that the Oil Companies get control of over 80% of the Iraqi Oil fields. The CEO's of those Companies have complete control of every aspect of the oil for 35 years into the future. Iraq gets to keep 17 oil fields, but even for these fields, operational control is in the hands of the International Oil companiesKucinich also points out that this plan was formulated well before the invasion. And some of you still cling to "We went in to get rid of the WMD?" Ready to admit that you've been had? I'm talking to the Bush supporters here. Yeah I know there's the regime change story, but how many of you out there know that Saddam Hussein agreed to leave Iraq and go into exile - before the invasion? And for that matter, as I write this story, there is precious little on the Media about Kucinich and what he reported.

I'm sure you've heard rumors about the absurd rape of the Iraqi resources leading up to today, and so have I. What I heard was that the plan was for American Oil companies to get 74 cents of every dollar generated by Iraqi Oil revenues for the next 35 years. Pretty close to what Kucinich reported.

Do you still think we went into Iraq for Humanitarian reasons or to protect the United States from an awful dictator? We have a dictator looming over the horizon and folks he sure ain't A-rab.

Did we really need to lose all those civil liberties to get all that Oil? Or, did we get the oil? Maybe those Oil companies will lower the price of gas as soon as they get that 21 Trillion. Then again, they might not. They still have to sack Iran to corner the market. Course they're gearing up for that now. The most powerful country on Earth, America, the country with a Military budget greater than the rest of the World combined is afraid of Iran? Absurd! Of course they're not, our shadow government is just afraid that Iran can't handle all that oil. How many of your sons and daughters do you plan to send to die so those few oil companies sack Iran? How many Iranians are you willing to sacrifice?

Have you heard about the oil deal? Do you think we sacked Iraq for any reason other than the oil? Do you consider yourself to be well informed? What do you think you have gained by our invasion of Iraq? What have the American people lost?

The time for change is now. And it won't come from either the Republicans or the Democrats. It will have to come from the people. Those in Power won't surrender their roles without a fight. You ought to get informed and involved. Now.

Taken from the Populist Party of America (http://www.populistamerica.com/revealed_why_your_sons_and_daughters_died_in_iraq)- Where the people rule
Revealed: Why Your Sons and Daughters Died in Iraq
May 27, 2007
by Cliff Carson



What do you think?

[Sun Sparkle]

Simply put a whole gallery of Wall Street corporations are reaping gargantuan rewards. Whether that is in the area of reconstruction (which is hopelessly inefficient), energy supplies or any other of the contractors that are required to be keep Iraq under occupation...

All of these private corporations are synomyous with the politicans. It makes no difference to them breaking open campagne bottles in their boardrooms, that they are sending scores of men and women to deaths to perpetrate one of the most notorious and blatant acts of international theft in world history..

In short the worse things get the more money there is to be had with the American public purse bearing the huge costs of staging this gigantic burgulary..

[Joseph Pariah]

I agree with Sun Sparkle.

[BunyipDude]

So should I start an armed movement to coerce the government into withdrawing from Iraq? If anyone wants to help me, I'd do it. Guerrilla warfare is always fun.

[FreeSouthCarolina]

Its actually not clear that a majority want out of Iraq, if its even a majority its not that big of a majority. Thats just the impression you've been given, I know LOTS of people who don't want to. You underestimate the Conservative base of this country.

[Jimmy Blackthorn]

Not all conservatives want to stay in Iraq though. Traditional conservatives like Patrick Buchanan and Ron Paul have been against the war from the very beginning

[Hildy]

Its actually not clear that a majority want out of Iraq, if its even a majority its not that big of a majority. Thats just the impression you've been given, I know LOTS of people who don't want to. You underestimate the Conservative base of this country.

I don't believe that's true. I think a big majority wants out, but it boils down to our need for middle eastern! oil! We were led to believe that the reason for our invasion of Iraq was national security, but as it turns out, it is becoming more obvious that it is our need for middle eastern oil that is a great concern for our government and this concern has been guiding U.S. policy in the Middle East for decades.

However, this way of thinking is sadly mistaken. Far from improving national security, our attempts to increase oil security by interfering in Mid East politics and economics have created greater oil insecurity and brought forward political instability. Our rationale for the whole invasion has shifted, it is becoming quite clear that our need for oil is usurping our need for peace.

Now, as we get closer to another presidential election, party lines have split, and now the democrats are turning into the anti-war party and the popularity of the war is sinking fast! Those who were originally for the "war on terror", are now heaping scorn on the whole thing. We are now being confronted with the question of immediate withdrawal.

It's becoming more and more obvious that this war is a "no win" situation. So therefore, do we keep sacrificing our own soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians for a cause that is unsalvageable for our lust for oil? I wonder......I think the majority of americans would agree that we need to withdraw.

If you view these recent polling reports, you will see that there is an overwhelming opinion against our continued occupation of Iraq.

Polling Report (http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm)

[CELTICGUERILLA]

Its actually not clear that a majority want out of Iraq, if its even a majority its not that big of a majority. Thats just the impression you've been given, I know LOTS of people who don't want to. You underestimate the Conservative base of this country.

**** the conservatives in the u.s

[Puddies]

All that matters is that an extremely clear majority of Iraqis want an end to the occupation. Sin é.

[Kat]

Its actually not clear that a majority want out of Iraq, if its even a majority its not that big of a majority. Thats just the impression you've been given, I know LOTS of people who don't want to. You underestimate the Conservative base of this country.

It certainly is a large majority of americans that want out of there. Those that support it are definately a minority. Are you saying you support this? you certainly are a conservetive in a remedial sort of way. So you must support all the other robbery this past 20 ys of republican power has commited on the people of the US, I guess i just assumed since you have the EXACT govenrment you are supposedly wanting to secede for, the only possible objection you could have is Iraq. If the answer is yes, and you support this joke of an occupation, why the heck do you want to secede? this farce of an administration was put in place and is held together by that minority of right wing states, the gays ,guns and god crowd that currently run this country. You have gotten your good fake christian, pro life, no taxes for the rich peeps, non regulated, corporate state, false family values government why would you want to secede? I dont get it. The Ideology you profess to desire is all around you, you should be happy.

[Jimmy Blackthorn]

**** the conservatives in the u.s

It was the neo-conservatives who wanted the war. The traditional conservatives in America wanted no part of it. It's unconstitutional. According to the US Constitution a formal declaration of war must be voted on by congress before military force is approved.

[Jimmy Blackthorn]

**** the conservatives in the u.s

It was the neo-conservatives who wanted the war. The traditional conservatives in America wanted no part of it. It's unconstitutional. According to the US Constitution a formal declaration of war must be voted on by congress before military force is approved. It's not all conservatives either. There's a lot of social liberal, but fiscally conservative politicians who support the war. Why do you think that is?....Corporate interests come to mind.

[OCoinnigh]

Did any of you see Chris Rock on TV. They asked him if he thought the US was ready for a black president. He said they already had a retarded president so he didn't see why the couldn't have a black one. I just thought that was one of the reasons they were still in Iraq.

[Hildy]

It certainly is a large majority of americans that want out of there. Those that support it are definately a minority. Are you saying you support this? you certainly are a conservetive in a remedial sort of way. So you must support all the other robbery this past 20 ys of republican power has commited on the people of the US, I guess i just assumed since you have the EXACT govenrment you are supposedly wanting to secede for, the only possible objection you could have is Iraq. If the answer is yes, and you support this joke of an occupation, why the heck do you want to secede? this farce of an administration was put in place and is held together by that minority of right wing states, the gays ,guns and god crowd that currently run this country. You have gotten your good fake christian, pro life, no taxes for the rich peeps, non regulated, corporate state, false family values government why would you want to secede? I dont get it. The Ideology you profess to desire is all around you, you should be happy.

Spot on, kat!

[Hildy]

Did any of you see Chris Rock on TV. They asked him if he thought the US was ready for a black president. He said they already had a retarded president so he didn't see why the couldn't have a black one. I just thought that was one of the reasons they were still in Iraq.


Where do you get these moronic views of yours? Judgiing by your anti-sematic statements in another thread, and your comments here I get the impression part of your reason for seccession might be racist......if you accomplish that feat and you become you own little "utopia", will you then evict everyone that is non-white and protestant?

[FreeSouthCarolina]

I don't really have a view on Iraq. Its a Federal Issue, as you've already said I want to secede so thats what I am worried about. I know I don't support the Republican party or the Democratic party. What I want to know though is why are you letting this Iraq stuff interfere with Irish Republicanism. You keep saying the word "we" and "us" which shows your American. So how can you get involved with Irish issues when you are so concerned with American ones? Just a thought. I'm on here because my grandma is from Derry and I have lots of Cousins over there. What are y'alls reasons for being on here (the americans), just curious.

[quirk]

I think a big majority wants out, but it boils down to our need for middle eastern! oil!

While I agree that that is part of the reason, I do not think that it is all of it. The US are in Iraq to enforce the hegemony in the middle east. It is about expanding the empire. Of course to do this they also need oil and oil can produce massive profits but I think oil is of secondary importance to them.

[Hildy]

I don't really have a view on Iraq. Its a Federal Issue, as you've already said I want to secede so thats what I am worried about. I know I don't support the Republican party or the Democratic party. What I want to know though is why are you letting this Iraq stuff interfere with Irish Republicanism. You keep saying the word "we" and "us" which shows your American. So how can you get involved with Irish issues when you are so concerned with American ones? Just a thought. I'm on here because my grandma is from Derry and I have lots of Cousins over there. What are y'alls reasons for being on here (the americans), just curious.

Without divulging too much of my background, I have different reasons for supporting the Irish Republican movement and wanting re-unification between the six and the rest of Ireland.......most of all, I want the british occupation over, and the brits out! No matter the reason, I have been a supporter all of my life.....it doesn't matter where I live.

And how is this thread, or the issues in Iraq interfering with Irish Republicanism:confused: :confused: That's a very narrow view of life, if all you are concerned about is one thing......educating myself on a myriad of different causes is something I make a point of doing, especially if they interest me, or I have a reason to. Now, learning about South Carolina secceeding from the rest of the country is interesting, and not really much to do with Irish Republicansim, as far as I can see......but should I close my mind and not want to learn about your movement?:hmmm:

Cheers, Hildy

[Kat]

I don't really have a view on Iraq. Its a Federal Issue, as you've already said I want to secede so thats what I am worried about. I know I don't support the Republican party or the Democratic party. What I want to know though is why are you letting this Iraq stuff interfere with Irish Republicanism. You keep saying the word "we" and "us" which shows your American. So how can you get involved with Irish issues when you are so concerned with American ones? Just a thought. I'm on here because my grandma is from Derry and I have lots of Cousins over there. What are y'alls reasons for being on here (the americans), just curious.


You dont have a view on Iraq? I would bet my last tenner you were eating freedom fries last year, and burnt all your dixie chicks albums.


did you or did you not vote for bush? twice? yeah thought so.




As for why i am on an irish board? cause I am a mystery, wrapped in an enigma.

[BunyipDude]

I do think Jimmy Blackthorn is right and you should all listen to him on this point...there are many strands of conservatism that exist in the U.S. It's the neo-cons who tend to pursue the expansionist, imperialist tendencies we all seem to agree are bad...paleo-conservatives (i.e. Pat Buchanan) and libertarian conservatives (i.e. Ron Paul) are strongly against the war, and have always held that position. It's not fair to stereotype all conservatives as war-mongers anymore than it's fair to stereotype all socialists as Stalinists or all Muslims as Islamist radicals.

What I want to know though is why are you letting this Iraq stuff interfere with Irish Republicanism. You keep saying the word "we" and "us" which shows your American. So how can you get involved with Irish issues when you are so concerned with American ones? Just a thought. I'm on here because my grandma is from Derry and I have lots of Cousins over there. What are y'alls reasons for being on here (the americans), just curious.

This American is here to learn about the Republican movement.

Quite a few people in the Irish Republican movement DO concern themselves with this "Iraq stuff". RSF's newspaper Saoirse regularly posts articles criticizing the war, which they see as imperialist...just like the British presence in Northern Ireland. Most Irish Republicans are internationalists as well as nationalists.

[MarkyMark]

RSF's newspaper Saoirse regularly posts articles criticizing the war

Im amazed it can fit that in between criticising PSF and the PIRA.

FFS last weeks headline was "total and final surrender". eh lads, we havent surrendered as long as we have the courageous Continuity IRA gunning hard for the brits....oh wait....

*now thats sarcasm* :eusa_dance:

[BunyipDude]

Im amazed it can fit that in between criticising PSF and the PIRA.

FFS last weeks headline was "total and final surrender". eh lads, we havent surrendered as long as we have the courageous Continuity IRA gunning hard for the brits....oh wait....

*now thats sarcasm* :eusa_dance:

LOL, yes, my sentiments exactly. Hearing the Contos' threats these days reminds me of that Onion article on bin Laden...

[Kat]

I am sure it must be better to have a smile than what you must be feeling about the provos these days lads... :icon_wink:

[Hildy]

Kat & BunyipDude,

" But we uphold the right of others to have a view which might be different from ours . There is nothing wrong with dissent . " - Gerry Adams


http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s6/hildydonovan/ththfns6si.gif

Cheers, Hildy!:biggrin:

[Takeshi]

All that matters is that an extremely clear majority of Iraqis want an end to the occupation. Sin é.

Really? Because I was under the impression that they have democratically elected representatives who have said they want US forces to remain in their country until to assist with security.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that the US is occupying Iraq. There was a period of occupation, but that ended and the status of US troops was changed to supporting the Iraqi government. You may not have noticed the democratic elections in Iraq, but I was there when they happened and I did. ;)

[KillinSnakes]

They won't withdraw because it's difficult to close pandora's box.

Also, cos they're bloodthirsty trash.

[Finny]

Really? Because I was under the impression that they have democratically elected representatives who have said they want US forces to remain in their country until to assist with security.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that the US is occupying Iraq. There was a period of occupation, but that ended and the status of US troops was changed to supporting the Iraqi government. You may not have noticed the democratic elections in Iraq, but I was there when they happened and I did. ;)

Thats typical BS.

Democratically elected? When a Foreign force is occupying a country there is no democracy.

The US props up the "Federal" Government of Iraq.. Bet you the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds would opt for 3 states if they actually had a choice.

[ciaranxavier]

In my opinion from what i see from bush the reason america is not withdrawing from this war is because the bush administration sees it as admitting the war was wrong in the first place. and of course the economic reasons.

[CHISHTI786]

Mr carolina you don't have to be 100% Irish to have an interest in Irish freedom...just 100% human. I have absolutely no south african blood in me but i was anti apartheid, no spanish blood in me but i'm sympathetic to the basque's (the people not the lingerie..ahem) and i have no arab blood in me but i'm pro Palestinian and pro Iraqi.

An election is where many parties stand and the one which gains the majority of votes wins..not a western hand picked few where the outcome is obvious...if an election was like that then saddams 99% election majorities should have been considered a reality instead of what they were - a fabrication.

Nobody seems to mentioning that the US/UK went against the united nations and this just shows their arrogance and their love of economic facism.