2 Sinn Fein Cllr's In Dublin Vote In Favour Of Bin Taxes

[manus1916]

After their poor result in the General Election Sinn Fein obviously believe that a further turn away from community politics and towards the centre will claw back some of their support. A very public display of this was 2 of their councillors in Dublin voting for the Bin Tax. Cynically enough, none of their councillors in areas where the anti bin tax campaign is still active voted for the tax.


SEEN THIS POSTED ON ANOTHER SITE WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE OUT THERE CAN CONFIRM THIS? :hmmm: :wall:

[MarkyMark]

The bin tax problem is not under the control of the councilors but the city/council manager. It doesnt matter whether the councilors agree, it isnt up to them anyway

[communitarian]

The bin tax problem is not under the control of the councilors but the city/council manager. It doesnt matter whether the councilors agree, it isnt up to them anyway

Ahh Thats alright then, PSF still soldiering on in the Socialist spirit of Taxing the working Class For Water in the 6 and Sanitation in the 26, but its not up to them if they vote either way as they aren't in a power to make decisions rendering what ever mandate they recieve as useless???.
I Understand now.:slap:

[manus1916]

Perhaps not, but the budget is in the control of the councillors and to pass an estimate containing bin charges as a major element is a de facto acceptance of them.

same in waterford co council. sinn fein councillor welcomed the co managers proposals regarding waste charges.
Definitely a major shift in sinn fein thinking since the general election, which will probably see sinn fein councillors supporting council budgets around the country.


THIS WAS ALSO POSTED NOT INFORMED ON THESE ISSUES SO CAN'T REALLY COMMENT JUST THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING AND WORRIED THAT AFTER CONOR MURPHY SNEAKS WATER CHARGES INTO OUR RATES BILLS HE MIGHT GET SOME IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO INCREASE HIS BUDGET THOUGH BIN CHARGES

[manus1916]

SEEN THIS COMMENT
At their Ard Fheis 2 years ago there was a motion to the effect that any councillor who supported bin charges should be expelled from the party.

I think the Ard Comhairle managed to get it off the clar or amend it in some way. They weren't willing to take the risk that it would be passed.


AND THE REPLY
That motion was not taken off the Clár and was passed. That was the policy up till last years Ard Fheis when the Ard Chomhairle submitted its own motion on the issue. The motion was passed and is now policy.

The policy states that SF is against service charges and should not support any estimates that contain service charges unless prior approval is recieved by the Ard Chomhairle. Obviously Dublin Cllr's got permission to support the estimates if they so choose. :hmmm:

AND IF PERMISSION WAS NOT RECIEVED FROM THE ARD CHOMHAIRLE THEN I WOULD EXPECT THESE CLLR'S WILL BE FACING DISIPLINARY MEASURES

[robertemmett]

Ahh Thats alright then, PSF still soldiering on in the Socialist spirit of Taxing the working Class For Water in the 6 and Sanitation in the 26, but its not up to them if they vote either way as they aren't in a power to make decisions rendering what ever mandate they recieve as useless???.
I Understand now.:slap:

an excellent retort. fair play

[Mellows1922]

SEEN THIS COMMENT

AND THE REPLY
:hmmm:

AND IF PERMISSION WAS NOT RECIEVED FROM THE ARD CHOMHAIRLE THEN I WOULD EXPECT THESE CLLR'S WILL BE FACING DISIPLINARY MEASURES

If you want to post on polly go ahead and do so, but there is zero need to repost posts from another forum on this one, especially when you are not the one that made the original post.

You've already admitted in this thread that you have no idea what you are talking about so stop resorting to other peoples words so you can try to have a say.

[communitarian]

Instead of reprimand would an answer not be more beneficial to the Board?

Will these Councillors be diciplined has the PSF position on community issues in the 26 counties changed owing to the disasterous defeat they endured this year?
If the strategy has changed and these councilors were toeing the party line what is the new direction in which 26 county PSF are going and what ground are they attempting to break open by closing off the working class?

[Kat]

wow... i have been working insane hours and not reading my news... did provies really vote for the bin tax? really? communitarians question is a good one. I would be curious to know the answer myself

[robertemmett]

yeah they did. this stuff has been on indymedia (can i mention this?) site for a long time now

[MarkyMark]

could you provide a link please?

[Limerick Hurler]

what's the bin tax

[MarkyMark]

what's the bin tax

basically being charged sanitation tax for your trash to be collected

[Limerick Hurler]

that sucks, why is Sinn Fein voting for it?

[MarkyMark]

I dont know, ive yet to see any links to an actual story proving this claim though. Originally Sinn Fein were one of the main parties who opposed it. Labour Party opposed it originally but then did a U-turn. The leader of the Socialist Party did time in prison for refusing to pay it and then lost his seat in the parliament. I know my household refuses to pay it, weve been threatened with court about 4 times but nothing happened, we get taxed enough to keep the country running, and sanitation is part of that, they have no right to tax people twice

[Mellows1922]

any chance some of you who appear to know all could furnish us with some details, what council was it, when did the vote take place, what was the text of the motion being voted upon, what were the names of the reps, what was the result of the vote.

Thanks.

I'm sure you wouldn't be all yapping about something before you know what it is you are yapping about.

[wherenow]

Aontaim leat Mellows. Tá a lan duine anseo sasta chun a labhairt faoi rudai gan an t-eolas go lear.
I agree Mellows, who are these councillors?

[MarkyMark]

yup agreed, cutting and pasting a quote from P.ie isnt a reliable source, especially a quote on P.ie that doesnt provide a source itself

[robertemmett]

here is a link to the story.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84504

[manus1916]

i think if you re read my origanal post i was merely asking if anyone could confirm this and not confirming it myself

Dublin Bin Privatisation: Labour Party Privatisation Plan backed by Greens, SF, PDs, FF, & FG.
dublin | bin tax | news report Thursday October 04, 2007 19:03 by DVBLINIA
Cllr. Eric Byrne motion for privatisation passes

Bin Services to be open to bidding by private operators.
Cllr. Eric Byrne of the Labour Party proposed the motion at Dublin City Council that management plans for outsourcing of the bin service should be allowed. The motion was passed with the support of all the political parties represented on the Council: namely Sinn Féin, Greens, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the PDs and Labour.

The plan involves allowing private operators to make bids for certain routes. The Dublin City Council would then judge the various bids and award an operator that delivers the most 'competitive' price plan. This outsourcing is likely to lead to a 'race to the bottom' in wages and conditions for the bin workers as firms with lower pay and worse working conditions are more likely to succeed. Cllr. Eric Byrne defended his actions by arguing that this proposal is worth defending as "cherry-picking" of routes would be countered by the City Council's regulation of the contracts.

The move of the Dublin City Council follows Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown's privatisation under a Labour-FG coalition. In DLR the Council have handed over names and addresses of residents to Panda waste to facilitate them getting business off the Council.



thats gotta sting!:icon_lol:

[Mellows1922]

i think if you re read my origanal post i was merely asking if anyone could confirm this and not confirming it myself

Dublin Bin Privatisation: Labour Party Privatisation Plan backed by Greens, SF, PDs, FF, & FG.
dublin | bin tax | news report Thursday October 04, 2007 19:03 by DVBLINIA
Cllr. Eric Byrne motion for privatisation passes

Bin Services to be open to bidding by private operators.
Cllr. Eric Byrne of the Labour Party proposed the motion at Dublin City Council that management plans for outsourcing of the bin service should be allowed. The motion was passed with the support of all the political parties represented on the Council: namely Sinn Féin, Greens, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the PDs and Labour.

The plan involves allowing private operators to make bids for certain routes. The Dublin City Council would then judge the various bids and award an operator that delivers the most 'competitive' price plan. This outsourcing is likely to lead to a 'race to the bottom' in wages and conditions for the bin workers as firms with lower pay and worse working conditions are more likely to succeed. Cllr. Eric Byrne defended his actions by arguing that this proposal is worth defending as "cherry-picking" of routes would be countered by the City Council's regulation of the contracts.

The move of the Dublin City Council follows Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown's privatisation under a Labour-FG coalition. In DLR the Council have handed over names and addresses of residents to Panda waste to facilitate them getting business off the Council.



thats gotta sting!:icon_lol:

Ah right, this story is months old and I'm pretty sure it was discussed at the time on the board.

It isn't a case of Sinn Fein supporting the bin tax, it's a case of trying to coordinate the collection of waste and to prevent the private sector cherry picking the most profitable routes and leaving the council to deal with the routes where it's not even possible to break even.

The motion was also to get all of the Dublin council areas to use the same service so it is fully coordinated. It makes perfect sense.

Sinn Fein are still in favour of public waste collection.

[manus1916]

Sinn Fein are still in favour of public waste collection.

and the people paying for it obviously since it's being outsourced to private companies

not a first for sinn fein they also voted on belfast city council for private investment in the royal hospital

and marty when education minister was all for private investment in schools

there's a trend that was never mentioned in the parties manifesto

scary times for the working class

[Kat]

Ah right, this story is months old and I'm pretty sure it was discussed at the time on the board.

It isn't a case of Sinn Fein supporting the bin tax, it's a case of trying to coordinate the collection of waste and to prevent the private sector cherry picking the most profitable routes and leaving the council to deal with the routes where it's not even possible to break even.

The motion was also to get all of the Dublin council areas to use the same service so it is fully coordinated. It makes perfect sense.

Sinn Fein are still in favour of public waste collection.






This is not the same story, which is good Mellows, but provie sinn fein hardly comes out of this one smelling like a rose either.
The article clearly states that the provisionals approved of privatisation of public services. That even though they may as you said be still in favour of public waste collection, they no longer posess the intergity to vote in accordance with what they believe., least on october 24th they did not vote for it. They voted to privatise.

[Hildy]

Hi Kat, Mellows......Correct me if I'm wrong.......

I don' get it why there is such a "stink" (excuse the pun) about the bin tax. I would think everyone would be in favor of paying for disposal of their trash. The opposition to the tax (from what I understand) is that all the revenue collected is not going solely to the waste removal, but is being resourced to other departments. If it was privatised, this would not be done as there would be a charge per weight of the individual household. I think that is far more fair, and is a good idea.

I don't think anyone is opposed to paying for waste removal, it just needs to be fair.


Cheers, Hildy

[Kat]

I think people object to the privatisation of public services period. the removal of my neighbors trash is just as important to me as the removal of my own, whether he has more or less than i, these are communal tasks done for the the comfort of the community as well as for public health. It is the same thing as water, They should not be privatised at all, but instead continue to be operated as services of the common. for ALL, regardless of ability to pay, it is after all, anyone of us who can catch a water, rodent or refuse borne disease from one of thse who cannot afford these services. It is all of us who must walk past the stench of one of these on the way to work.

You are in america, where a few suburban areas do not have public trash services, I wonder have you seen one of those stories on the news where the neighbors report a smell eminationg form the garage of a home and it turns out to be months worth of trash that the homeowner could not afford to have collected? in the inner ring suborbs around where i live, there is only one suburb that does require removal fees for trash, and that is the one that has the problem of people not having thiers removed. And ALWAYS they area which these stories originate on the news. It is the area which has had homes condemned and torn down due to the damage lack of trash collection has caused. Granted most people do manage to have thiers removed, but if you live next door to one that does not, you suffer the little crititers, bugs and rodents that your neighbor attracts too.

[Mellows1922]

This is not the same story, which is good Mellows, but provie sinn fein hardly comes out of this one smelling like a rose either.

I'm pretty sure it is the same story Kat

The article clearly states that the provisionals approved of privatisation of public services.

But that isn't the case, the motion was to approve that the council would accept tenders from public and private waste management companies, and that if private companies tendered they would have to tender for whole areas and not simply cherry pick the best routes leaving the council to deal with the loss making routes.

It was a motion about tenders not about the acceptance of any tender.

That even though they may as you said be still in favour of public waste collection, they no longer posess the intergity to vote in accordance with what they believe., least on october 24th they did not vote for it. They voted to privatise.

No they didn't, they voted to allow private companies to tender.

[Kat]

I'm pretty sure it is the same story Kat



But that isn't the case, the motion was to approve that the council would accept tenders from public and private waste management companies, and that if private companies tendered they would have to tender for whole areas and not simply cherry pick the best routes leaving the council to deal with the loss making routes.

It was a motion about tenders not about the acceptance of any tender.


No they didn't, they voted to allow private companies to tender.




Provisional Sinn Fein took part in, voted for and endorsed the race to the bottom for the working class, they voted in favour of terminating the employment of moderately paid public servants if a private company can undercut the price of that labour. They will be able to undercut the price of that labour you know. And they will undercut it enough to save taxpayers a little bit of money and to make the owner of a private company well off, this will come on the backs of the workers who will likely be paid half what they were as public servants. And will not likely save the government very much at all, or anything at all if you factor in the shrinkage of your tax base. Nice Job, ya socialists you., :(

[Nijinsky]

Hi Kat, Mellows......Correct me if I'm wrong.......

I don' get it why there is such a "stink" (excuse the pun) about the bin tax. I would think everyone would be in favor of paying for disposal of their trash. The opposition to the tax (from what I understand) is that all the revenue collected is not going solely to the waste removal, but is being resourced to other departments. If it was privatised, this would not be done as there would be a charge per weight of the individual household. I think that is far more fair, and is a good idea.

I don't think anyone is opposed to paying for waste removal, it just needs to be fair.


Cheers, Hildy

Hildy, we already pay for our waste to be collected through VAT. We previously paid through the Domestic Rates system which was abolished back in 1978. When that was abolished, VAT was increased from 17% to 21% to pay for the collection and disposal of rubbish. The introduction of the Bin taxes are therefore a form of double taxation, which means people are paying twice to dispose of their waste. That is why it is unacceptable.

[Hildy]

Hildy, we already pay for our waste to be collected through VAT. We previously paid through the Domestic Rates system which was abolished back in 1978. When that was abolished, VAT was increased from 17% to 21% to pay for the collection and disposal of rubbish. The introduction of the Bin taxes are therefore a form of double taxation, which means people are paying twice to dispose of their waste. That is why it is unacceptable.

Thanks Najinsky for clarifying. I'd say that really makes a difference, is that all the VAT pays for? Or are other services included in that tax?

[MarkyMark]

but these areas are already bin-taxed, this motion was supporting privatising them

[ANE32]

Will have to find out who these cllr's were,cos if they were in my area I will make sure neither my family or myself will vote for them next time! Have not and never will pay bin charges!

[MarkyMark]

well it certainly wouldnt have been Larry or Killian anyway