Should Neo-Nazis be allowed on this forum?

[Calv]

Just a question in relation to a Nazi who has been recently posting on this board (greektzon (http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/member.php?u=775))

Should they be allowed to post here on an Irish Republican forum, where the majority of people beleive in Socialism and equality? Personally, I don't want to associate myself with these people, so I voted no.

What's your thoughts everyone.

[quirk]

I voted yes. He should be allowed to stay as long as he keeps to the rules. If he is willing to have proper debate then its fair enough. Also who knows it might even do him some good to hear a rational voice every now and then.

[Calv]

I voted yes. He should be allowed to stay as long as he keeps to the rules. If he is willing to have proper debate then its fair enough. Also who knows it might even do him some good to hear a rational voice every now and then.

He's not having proper debate though mo chara. He has made several racist comments towards Jews and posts referring to being "proud of your race". This was the whole point of me making this poll, to highlight to members what kind of scumbags are joining this forum.

[quirk]

Well then he should get a warning like everyone else and if he continues then be banned.

[Calv]

Well then he should get a warning like everyone else and if he continues then be banned.

What will giving him a warning acheive?

[quirk]

What will giving him a warning acheive?

Not about him. About us treating people the same. If he keeps stepping out of line then he will be banned.

[Seabird]

Calv,

If he is banned because of his beliefs then we fall short of our own principles. I agree with quirk, if he follows the rules then he should be allowed to stay. Only MHO

[liam]

I voted yes. He should be allowed to stay as long as he keeps to the rules. If he is willing to have proper debate then its fair enough. Also who knows it might even do him some good to hear a rational voice every now and then.

:confused:

They have no other interest than to try and infect Republicanism with their pride bull****, this is a Republican forum is it not ?

They don't deserve a voice.

[Hildy]

Calv, mo chara....I understand what you're trying to eliminate and I'm proud of you for that.....especially when it comes to discrimination of the worst kind.

But, having said that, by doing this poll, and singling out a member on this board by labeling him a NN, and then denying him free speech here, we are in essence doing the same thing that you are accusing him of.

Do I make any sense? I think he should be treated the same as everybody else. I hope you don't think I am against you, I just don't think this is right. I for once agree with Quirk, and think he's right!

Peace,

Hildy

[Calv]

Calv,

If he is banned because of his beliefs then we fall short of our own principles. I agree with quirk, if he follows the rules then he should be allowed to stay. Only MHO

This members beleifs are based on Nazism and racial hatred. By signing up to this forum, he has come here to make his beleifs heard, so what your saying is he should be allowed to post racist comments? If your answer is no, then there is really no logic in allowing him to stay on this forum.

[greektzon]

Ok.we are wrong.Palestinians are happy because they are under an oppressive Israeli military occupation. Israel is the only democracy in the Mideast!
And israel launches flowers not bombs....

[quirk]

Ok.we are wrong.Palestinians are happy because they are under an oppressive Israeli military occupation. Israel is the only democracy in the Mideast!
And israel launches flowers not bombs....

I think what you say is based on reality. Palestine is under brutal occupation by Israel and this must be opposed. The majority on this forum would agree with that. The problem arises when you hold all Jews responsible for the action of Israel. How in your opinion are Jews opposed to the occupation and who struggle against it also responsible for the occupation?

[Seabird]

liam and Calv,

The loyalist neighborhoods felt the same way so now we resort to their antics? He is entitle to his opinion as long as it does not break forum rules. Are you saying we should discriminate? You are right, this is a republican forum where all people are created equal! As long as he follows the rules. . . You have judged this man before he has even really posted.

[Calv]

liam and Calv,

The loyalist neighborhoods felt the same way so now we resort to their antics? He is entitle to his opinion as long as it does not break forum rules. Are you saying we should discriminate? You are right, this is a republican forum where all people are created equal! As long as he follows the rules. . . You have judged this man before he has even really posted.

Well going by the majority of his 28 posts, I would say he has broke rule 3 on more than one ocassion.

[Nijinsky]

Well going by the majority of his 28 posts, I would say he has broke rule 3 on more than one ocassion.


Much as I hate these sort of scumbags, I have to agree with quirk and seabird on this. If he keeps within the rules, let him stay. If he breaks them,same as everyone else, then he shoudl be dealt with in the same manner.

Shoudl we also ban sick twisted racists and homophobes like Craobh as well? Where do you stop if you start down that road?

I think we should let them post as long as they keep within the rules like anyone else and personally speaking there is nothing i rather than showing up some of these racist neo nazi white supremacist scumbags for what they are.

[greektzon]

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/362/iraandplomuralgb1.jpg[/URL]
Irish men and women in this forum .
We are greeks nationalists.Not nazis.
Remember this photo.
We say the same thing,and we are support you.
Quirk thank you for your question.We will answer you.

[comrade jsams]

I have a big issue with Nazies but to be fair let him stay but if he or they post pro nazi ideas or any thing agints the rulse than they are out.

[Koneko]

Moved to Suggestions & Feedback forum.

[liam]

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/362/iraandplomuralgb1.jpg[/URL]
Irish men and women in this forum .
We are greeks nationalists.Not nazis.
Remember this photo.
We say the same thing,and we are support you.
Quirk thank you for your question.We will answer you.

I notice your prefered party is golden dawn. I take it they are not neo-nazi's either ?

[Raffles]

I notice your prefered party is golden dawn. I take it they are not neo-nazi's either ?


Going off track a bit but its relevant to the Piccy. Am I right in saying that RPG Avenue shown in the Picture is now known as Crocus Street? Thats where I stayed the last time I was over?

[East Tyrone]

I voted yes because I think that it is important that people espousing hate rhetoric, be it racial or sexual, have their arguments demolished and exposed. A lot of younger posters can gain valuable political education that would stand them in good stead when confronted with people of the lie under less favourable circumstances. Nonetheless I would encourage a very short leash for anyone with an obvious hate agenda.

[DFCRFB]

i voted no.

i dont want to listen to their racist and facist believes at all. they can keep them to the tiny minority of morons that wish to listen to it.

But he can stay as long as he doesnt break any of the rules of the forum.

[wherenow]

I will oppose this little **** (Greektzon) where ever I see him on this Forum. I will continually ask him his beliefs and I will continue to tell him to **** OFF as long as he has Golden Dawn as a party.
If I am mistaken then his answers will show me and I will apologise, but until then he can **** OFF.

[JPL]

This is bull****.

I've seen worse from Irish people on this forum than him. People labling loyalists under one banner also. Is this not the same thing? Judgement based on the fact that they fall under a certain category?

He is right - Israel is a terrible state, but I wouldn't label all the jews under the one banner. I also believe he should be allowed to stay on here... especially when people like craobh (who is ten times worse) is allowed to spit his vile hatred on here.

[theblacknorth]

If He wants to talk about his Neo-Nazis stuff he should take it elsewhere, but if he is in for republican disscussions then fair enough isnt this what this site is for?

[Craobh Gal Gréine]

Just a question in relation to a Nazi who has been recently posting on this board (greektzon (http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/member.php?u=775))

Should they be allowed to post here on an Irish Republican forum, where the majority of people beleive in Socialism and equality? Personally, I don't want to associate myself with these people, so I voted no.

What's your thoughts everyone.



Give us a clear definition of what is a Nazi? What about Stalin Communists, Pro-Abortionists and the like? What about the members or supporters of the racist group the Black Panters? What about ANC members involved in rape? Are they all to be banned from this website? What about Criminals, drug-dealers and people who adhere to the Islamic faith which is both homophobic and anti-Jew?

[Craobh Gal Gréine]

He's not having proper debate though mo chara. He has made several racist comments towards Jews and posts referring to being "proud of your race". This was the whole point of me making this poll, to highlight to members what kind of scumbags are joining this forum.



Wasn't Arthur Griffith and J.J. Kelly always giving out about the Jews when they were Presidents of Sinn Féin. To assume this is a new thing to Republican circles is a mystery. What if somebody referred to Christians as Dissident Jews, would that be Racist?

[wherenow]

Tá orainn ar suile a coimead air. Thosaigh sé na threads thios le deanai
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6848
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6845
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6803
Cathfidh muid na ceisteanna a chuir air.

We must keep our eyes on him. Above are the last three threads he has started. To my mind they all have rascist undertones. We need to ask him his opinion and why he is starting the threads. If he is a rascist/fascist then let's get it out in the open and go from there. i make no apologies for telling him to **** off until he clarifies his position.
Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ We just need to add women to this to this quote to make it as true today as it has always been.

[Craobh Gal Gréine]

Much as I hate these sort of scumbags, I have to agree with quirk and seabird on this. If he keeps within the rules, let him stay. If he breaks them,same as everyone else, then he shoudl be dealt with in the same manner.

Shoudl we also ban sick twisted racists and homophobes like Craobh as well? Where do you stop if you start down that road?

I think we should let them post as long as they keep within the rules like anyone else and personally speaking there is nothing i rather than showing up some of these racist neo nazi white supremacist scumbags for what they are.



Are you tending to suggest that anybody following the Christian, Islamic or Pagan faiths should be banned because they are homophobic?

On the racism issue, being opposed to mass immigration in a person country does not make a person racist, and I question the whole concept of what is exactly racism to begin with? Is multiculturalism not the destruction of indeginous cultures?

[JPL]

Are you tending to suggest that anybody following the Christian, Islamic or Pagan faiths should be banned because they are homophobic?

I think you'll find the majority of Christian's aren't homophobic. They might not agree with it, but they don't want to put them in prison either and afford them the right to live whatever the way they see fit in this free world.

[East Tyrone]

Give us a clear definition of what is a Nazi? What about Stalin Communists, Pro-Abortionists and the like? What about the members or supporters of the racist group the Black Panters? What about ANC members involved in rape?

We don't get a lot of Stalinist Abortionist Panther Rapists round here but I'll club the first one I see to death with his keyboard; if that makes you feel better.

Wasn't Arthur Griffith and J.J. Kelly always giving out about the Jews when they were Presidents of Sinn Féin. To assume this is a new thing to Republican circles is a mystery. What if somebody referred to Christians as Dissident Jews, would that be Racist?
Arthur Griffith may have founded SF over 100 years ago but it doesn't make him infallible. If he espoused racism he was wrong to do so. Let's not forget that he didn't live to see the fruition of your anti-semetic attitudes in Nazi Germany.

[Craobh Gal Gréine]

We don't get a lot of Stalinist Abortionist Panther Rapists round here but I'll club the first one I see to death with his keyboard; if that makes you feel better.


Arthur Griffith may have founded SF over 100 years ago but it doesn't make him infallible. If he espoused racism he was wrong to do so. Let's not forget that he didn't live to see the fruition of your anti-semetic attitudes in Nazi Germany.


He preached his doctrine as part of the 2nd Dail when he was chairing it. In fact the Sinn Féin newspapers openly endorsed his beliefs, and this was mirrored in other papers run by Sinn Féin men like D.P. Moran. The entire Republican Movement of the 1920's supported Germany and did their best to be allied to Germany in the war against England. Those attitudes remained widespread right up to the 1950's. Also Semetic embraces Muslims and those of the Islamic faith. Didn't Germany have Turkish Muslims fighting for them during the 2nd world war?

[wherenow]

[QUOTE=East Tyrone;38216]We don't get a lot of Stalinist Abortionist Panther Rapists round here but I'll club the first one I see to death with his keyboard; if that makes you feel better.


Brilliant
Go hiontach

[Nijinsky]

Are you tending to suggest that anybody following the Christian, Islamic or Pagan faiths should be banned because they are homophobic?

On the racism issue, being opposed to mass immigration in a person country does not make a person racist, and I question the whole concept of what is exactly racism to begin with? Is multiculturalism not the destruction of indeginous cultures?

No its not.

I never said being opposed to immigration made a person racist. Many of those opposing immigration and attacking immigarnts are racist but not all.

And where did you get the idea that I was suggesting that anyone should be banned? You seem to have great difficulty reading and understanding english

[Craobh Gal Gréine]

No its not.

I never said being opposed to immigration made a person racist. Many of those opposing immigration and attacking immigarnts are racist but not all.

And where did you get the idea that I was suggesting that anyone should be banned? You seem to have great difficulty reading and understanding english



Show us the statistics of racist attacks in Ireland and how many people were actually convicted of racism, as opposed to foreigners claiming they were racially abused. In fact I doubt there is one or two cases of people being convicted for racism in Ireland a year.

Secondly, what about racism against the Irish by foreigners, or is it back to the same old guilty verdict that you have to be white to be racist?

My views have been simple here on the forum so far. I am opposed to mass immigration into our country and by extension multiculturalism. I have never said lets exterminate all the foreigners in the world. Secondly I am anti abortion and anti-gay because they are my religious beliefs and as I understand we have religious freedom in this country to express those beliefs. Thirdly I am opposed to the Jewish economic concept in the same manner as I am opposed to Marxism, Capitalism, Communism and so forth. In fact I see no major distinction between Christianity, Judasm or Islam, except the cultural dialects attributed to where that religion has colonised itself into different nations. To suggest I am anti Jew in a racist manner would by extention suggest I am anti Catholic.

[wherenow]

Craobh Gal Gréine,

Cad é an "Jewish economic concept?"

What is the "Jewish economic concpt?"

[JPL]

Secondly I am anti abortion and anti-gay because they are my religious beliefs and as I understand we have religious freedom in this country to express those beliefs.

Where in your religion does it say to put them in prison? Just because they are YOUR beliefs, doesn't mean you have the right to force them on anyone else.

[greektzon]

Tá orainn ar suile a coimead air. Thosaigh sé na threads thios le deanai
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6848
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6845
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6803
Cathfidh muid na ceisteanna a chuir air.

We must keep our eyes on him. Above are the last three threads he has started. To my mind they all have rascist undertones. We need to ask him his opinion and why he is starting the threads. If he is a rascist/fascist then let's get it out in the open and go from there. i make no apologies for telling him to **** off until he clarifies his position.
Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ We just need to add women to this to this quote to make it as true today as it has always been.

Are you judge wherenow?Am i nazi because i posted these threads?
Inhteresting.So,please make trial for the Dailymail,the Universities Ulster and Queensland,and the Iranfocus.

[Nijinsky]

Craobh Gal Gréine: Show us the statistics of racist attacks in Ireland and how many people were actually convicted of racism, as opposed to foreigners claiming they were racially abused. In fact I doubt there is one or two cases of people being convicted for racism in Ireland a year.

I dont know the statistics and didnt claim there was. Unlike you who makes specific claims about statistics and then refuses to actually show the statistics. I was talking about people who attack immigrants on internet sites and in the media etc. You have openly racist groups like saveireland and the Celtic Wolves etc etc who try to blame immigrants for everything

Craobh: Secondly, what about racism against the Irish by foreigners, or is it back to the same old guilty verdict that you have to be white to be racist?

Did somebody actually claim that Craobh? I know I have never claimed that. there are racist people in all walks of life. Irish people suffered racism in England an din the US and indeed in other countries also. If someone here has denied this, I would be interested in reading what they have to say. Have they?

Craobh: To suggest I am anti Jew in a racist manner would by extention suggest I am anti Catholic.

Did I claim you were? Are you anti-jewish?

[Nijinsky]

Wasn't Arthur Griffith and J.J. Kelly always giving out about the Jews when they were Presidents of Sinn Féin.

Were they right to do so Craobh?

[Jerry_Corneilus]

Wasn't Arthur Griffith and J.J. Kelly always giving out about the Jews when they were Presidents of Sinn Féin. To assume this is a new thing to Republican circles is a mystery. What if somebody referred to Christians as Dissident Jews, would that be Racist?



Its always amusing to hear neo-nazi losers going on about the Jews.

For hundreds of years Jews were kept in ghettos and not allowed to participate in normal occupations. As anyone knows if your suppress a groups culture you make their identity stronger, becoming collective is a form of defence.

White nationalists bring their kids up to be half-literate street fighters, Jews bring up their kids to be doctors, lawyers, bankers and members of the British cabinet.

Who do you think will inherit the Earth ?

And don't blame them for their success when they do.

[wherenow]

Greektzon.

Cuirim an ceist aris. Cad a bhfuil do thuairimi faoi iad?

I'll ask you again. What are your opinions on the three threads. I've asked you this question on all these threads and got no answer. Show me I'm wrong and answer my questions. If you believe all people are of equal value and entitled to respect then I will have no problem with you. Tell me there is no differnece to you in a white greek citizen and a black/jewish/muslim greek citizen.

[greektzon]

Like Hildy at his same post http://irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?p=34875#post34875 I wont tell you .You are not judge.
Peace....

[wherenow]

Greektzom

Gach uair feicim rud eigin racist uait. Beidh mé ag cuir ceisteanna ort.

Everytime I see something racist from you, (or leaning that way) I'll be asking you questions. Other readers can make their own judgement. To me it seems clear you do not believe in the equality of differnet races.

Here I go again.
If you believe all people are of equal value and entitled to respect then I will have no problem with you. Tell me there is no difference to you in a white greek citizen and a black/jewish/muslim greek citizen.
Until I get an answer I will continue to believe you are a rascist who supports Golden Dawn who are/were a rascist party in Greece.
Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ We just need to add women to this to this quote to make it as true today as it has always been.

[Calv]

Like Hildy at his same post http://irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?p=34875#post34875 I wont tell you .You are not judge.
Peace....

Why won't you tell wherenow? This is a discussion forum. Maybe it's because you will be exposed for the racist c*nt that you are.

[East Tyrone]

He preached his doctrine as part of the 2nd Dail when he was chairing it. In fact the Sinn Féin newspapers openly endorsed his beliefs, and this was mirrored in other papers run by Sinn Féin men like D.P. Moran. The entire Republican Movement of the 1920's supported Germany and did their best to be allied to Germany in the war against England. Those attitudes remained widespread right up to the 1950's. Also Semetic embraces Muslims and those of the Islamic faith. Didn't Germany have Turkish Muslims fighting for them during the 2nd world war?


I could care less what Arthur Griffith said about Jews; his actions in his last years would really have more bearing on the blue-shirts than on Republlicans. He was pro-treaty after all; or did you forget that part. That's not even the issue; the man has been dead for almost 90 years and the world has changed immensely. Only fringe fundamentalists hang on the words of dead Republicans like holy writ.
You speak of the Republican movement of the 1920s supporting Germany. They were Republicans ffs; it's only logical that they would have supported the Weimar Republic, Germany's first non-monarchist government. The Nazis didn't come to power until 1933.
Frank Ryan and Seán McBride were certainly not Nazi sympathisers and one must remember that any pro-German sympathies were purely on the basis of England's difficulty....... Allegations of Nazi collaboration or sympathy should be levelled at those establishment figures who facilitated the escape and resettlement of Nazi war criminals; not the dormant and weakened Republicans.
You try to introduce the Muslim Waffen SS Brigade as some kind of twisted logic to suggest that the Nazis weren't anti-semetic. You got that part wrong too, they were Bosnians recruited by the Jew-baiting Grand Muftii of Jerusalem; who the Brits let slide for war crimes. Sure you might as well extend that logic to use the German employment of Jewish Kapos and Sonderkommandoe, in the camps, as evidence of their love for the Semetic peoples.
Not only are you a hate-monger; you're not a very skilled hate-monger and the absolutely fraudulent, insanity of your argument is plain for all to see.

[Erin_go_bragh]

Its always amusing to hear neo-nazi losers going on about the Jews.

For hundreds of years Jews were kept in ghettos and not allowed to participate in normal occupations. As anyone knows if your suppress a groups culture you make their identity stronger, becoming collective is a form of defence.

White nationalists bring their kids up to be half-literate street fighters, Jews bring up their kids to be doctors, lawyers, bankers and members of the British cabinet.

Who do you think will inherit the Earth ?

And don't blame them for their success when they do.

We all cant be members of the middle class elite...anyway, you forgot to mention army officers, but then that job isnt limited to ust jews now it is?

[Jerry_Corneilus]

We all cant be members of the middle class elite...anyway, you forgot to mention army officers, but then that job isnt limited to ust jews now it is?


I think it was British PM Clement Attlee who said, the British working classes biggest problem was not their material poverty, rather the poverty of their imagination.

[ciaranxavier]

This members beleifs are based on Nazism and racial hatred. By signing up to this forum, he has come here to make his beleifs heard, so what your saying is he should be allowed to post racist comments? If your answer is no, then there is really no logic in allowing him to stay on this forum.

if hes not posting those kind of comments as im sure thats not the only thing running through there head then what are you showing other then your fear of others opinions by banning him.

[ciaranxavier]

k ive been searching the blatantly accused persons posts and though im not searching extensively i have not found a shred of neo nazism. can someone please show me how it was come to the conclusion that he is one, puritanical nationalism and neo nazism are two differant things and id like to know which were dealing with.

[wherenow]

Feach sa bosca bruscar agus faigh eolas faoi Golden Dawn agus a nascanna.

Have a look in the bin and research golden dawn and the links he gave us.

[wherenow]

ó wikepedia

Chrysi Avyi (in Greek characters: Χρυσή Αυγή; English translation: Golden Dawn) is a far right,chauvinist neo-Nazi party in Greece led by Nikolaos Michaloliakos. Chrysi Avyi is also the name of a newspaper and a magazine published by that party.

The party espouses anti-capitalist, anti-Semitic, and anti-Turkish philosophies based partially on laws of ancient Spartan society. The party advocates more radical policies regarding nationalism, immigration, and irridentism (including putsch-style methods) than other Greek far right, traditionalist groups such as the Hellenic Front and the Popular Orthodox Rally. Despite often being classified as a neo-Nazi party, Chysi Avyi claims the roots of its doctrine predate the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Chrysi Avyi never reached as high as 1% of the vote in a national election. It ceased political operations in 2005, and anti-fascists say it was absorbed by the similarly-small Patriotic Alliance, which ceased operations after Michaloliakos withdrew support. In March 2007, Chrysi Avyi held its sixth congress, where party officials announced the resumption of their political activism.

The party's symbol is a red flag bearing a black meander pattern with white trim. Other symbols adopted by Hrisi Avgi members are the national emblem of Greece, the labrys and the Celtic cross.

[wherenow]

Tá bron orm angle.

Sorry angle no more for a while.

[ciaranxavier]

ó wikepedia

Chrysi Avyi (in Greek characters: Χρυσή Αυγή; English translation: Golden Dawn) is a far right,chauvinist neo-Nazi party in Greece led by Nikolaos Michaloliakos. Chrysi Avyi is also the name of a newspaper and a magazine published by that party.

The party espouses anti-capitalist, anti-Semitic, and anti-Turkish philosophies based partially on laws of ancient Spartan society. The party advocates more radical policies regarding nationalism, immigration, and irridentism (including putsch-style methods) than other Greek far right, traditionalist groups such as the Hellenic Front and the Popular Orthodox Rally. Despite often being classified as a neo-Nazi party, Chysi Avyi claims the roots of its doctrine predate the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Chrysi Avyi never reached as high as 1% of the vote in a national election. It ceased political operations in 2005, and anti-fascists say it was absorbed by the similarly-small Patriotic Alliance, which ceased operations after Michaloliakos withdrew support. In March 2007, Chrysi Avyi held its sixth congress, where party officials announced the resumption of their political activism.

The party's symbol is a red flag bearing a black meander pattern with white trim. Other symbols adopted by Hrisi Avgi members are the national emblem of Greece, the labrys and the Celtic cross.


you say in that article that it is an anti capitalist group, i find it hard to believe theyre neo nazis and anti capitalist seeing as nazism was a form of capitalism and hated communists.

[Jerry_Corneilus]

you say in that article that it is an anti capitalist group, i find it hard to believe theyre neo nazis and anti capitalist seeing as nazism was a form of capitalism and hated communists.


Nazi economic Strasserism wasn't capitalism, either was syndicalism. Many modern fascist groups are "third positionists".

[ciaranxavier]

Strasserism wasn't capitalism.

strasserism? explain what that is please thats a new term to me.

[Jerry_Corneilus]

strasserism? explain what that is please thats a new term to me.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism


Basically it supported an economy based upon the value of labour rather then the gold exchange or a fiat economy based upon the value of paper money and intrest.

[ciaranxavier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism

ahh do we trust wikipedia??

[mobaction]

"strasserism" IS capitalism. capitalism is based on the private ownership of means of production. private ownership exists in "strasserism", "strasserism" only differentiate between "good" and "bad" capitalists. fascism is always a form of capitalist rule.

however, i voted no. there is nothing to discuss with fascists cause what they believe in is not discussible. do you really want to talk about "races"?

[Jerry_Corneilus]

"strasserism" IS capitalism. capitalism is based on the private ownership of means of production. private ownership exists in "strasserism", "strasserism" only differentiate between "good" and "bad" capitalists. fascism is always a form of capitalist rule.

however, i voted no. there is nothing to discuss with fascists cause what they believe in is not discussible. do you really want to talk about "races"?


Private ownership does not equate capitalism, it is just one aspect of capitalism, private ownership existed in some aspects after the Russian revolution was the Soviet union capitalist ? Neither Distributism, corporatism or Strasserism are capitalism. Private property existed 5,000 years ago, were those societies capitalist ?

Strasserism supported the nationalisaton of the industrial means of production as well as companies with more then 20 employees.

"This populist and anti-Semitic form of anti-Capitalism was further developed in 1925 when Otto Strasser published the Nationalsozialistische Briefe, which discussed notions of class conflict, wealth redistribution and a possible alliance with the Soviet Union. His 1930 follow-up Ministersessel oder Revolution ('Cabinet Seat or Revolution') went further by attacking Hitler's betrayal of the purported socialist aspect of Nazism, as well as criticizing the notion of Führerprinzip.[3]"


capitalism
Definition

Economic system characterized by the following: private property ownership exists; individuals and companies are allowed to compete for their own economic gain; and free market forces determine the prices of goods and services.



Mob action just curious what gives you the right to decide after one post ?

I never voted btw.

[duggie-89]

you say in that article that it is an anti capitalist group, i find it hard to believe theyre neo nazis and anti capitalist seeing as nazism was a form of capitalism and hated communists.

well their name was nationalist socialist and that did have quite a few weird views from no trade unions except the state one and the fact that most owners of major corporations were nazis so its hard to define them really

[Connollista]

I realize I'm new here, but I voted "no."

While I respect the call for free speech and exchange of ideas, this isn't a public policy forum or debate club. We're here to talk about the way forward for the Republican cause, and giving time to fascist scum is not conducive to that effort.

Republicans have long prided ourselves on our opposition to sectarian bigotry--we want a free Ireland for people of all faiths. The racist, anti-semitic filth spewed by neo-Nazis and their ilk is infinitely worse than the sectarianism we regularly see and fight against.

By permitting such garbage, I believe we disrespect ourselves and our history--our tradition is one of fighting against fascism, not giving them a pulpit. When Franco seized power in Spain, it was Republicans like Frank Ryan and Peader O'Donnell who organized the "Connolly Column" to go to Spain and fight the fascists.

Let the Nazis go to their own forums--there are plenty of them. This one is not for them.

[mickyk200]

I voted "No" becuase national socialism in all forms conflicts with basic republican ideals, republicanism is generally a left-wing movement and neo-nazis being right wing extremists will only cause conflict with-in our generally happy wee republican community.
Also I believe neo-nazi gangs in America and Britian are very anti-catholic. They support only white protestants, not that I have a problem with protestants but I won't tolerate bigotry.
Neo-nazi gangs such as combat 18 have links with loyalist paramilitaries such as the LVF, obvious conflict of interests.

[Emiliano Zapata]

I realize I'm new here, but I voted "no."

While I respect the call for free speech and exchange of ideas, this isn't a public policy forum or debate club. We're here to talk about the way forward for the Republican cause, and giving time to fascist scum is not conducive to that effort.

Republicans have long prided ourselves on our opposition to sectarian bigotry--we want a free Ireland for people of all faiths. The racist, anti-semitic filth spewed by neo-Nazis and their ilk is infinitely worse than the sectarianism we regularly see and fight against.

By permitting such garbage, I believe we disrespect ourselves and our history--our tradition is one of fighting against fascism, not giving them a pulpit. When Franco seized power in Spain, it was Republicans like Frank Ryan and Peader O'Donnell who organized the "Connolly Column" to go to Spain and fight the fascists.

Let the Nazis go to their own forums--there are plenty of them. This one is not for them.

i agree.

[wherenow]

55

na pasaran connolly column 1936
They will not enter Irishrepublican.net 2007

[mobaction]

@Jerry_Corneilus

"Private ownership does not equate capitalism, it is just one aspect of capitalism, private ownership existed in some aspects after the Russian revolution was the Soviet union capitalist ? Neither Distributism, corporatism or Strasserism are capitalism. Private property existed 5,000 years ago, were those societies capitalist ?"


the russian "war communism" only allowed small farmer to sell over productions of food. there was no private ownership of means of production. and that´s the basis of capitalism.

"Strasserism supported the nationalisaton of the industrial means of production as well as companies with more then 20 employees."

rubbish, the wikipedia article isn´t very good.

"This populist and anti-Semitic form of anti-Capitalism was further developed in 1925 when Otto Strasser published the Nationalsozialistische Briefe, which discussed notions of class conflict, wealth redistribution and a possible alliance with the Soviet Union. His 1930 follow-up Ministersessel oder Revolution ('Cabinet Seat or Revolution') went further by attacking Hitler's betrayal of the purported socialist aspect of Nazism, as well as criticizing the notion of Führerprinzip.[3]"

thats not the point. more important:

"This opposition to "Jewish finance capitalism," which they contrasted to "productive capitalism," was shared by Adolf Hitler himself, who borrowed it from Gottfried Feder.[2] "

"productive capitalism" (factories etc.) was "good capitalism" for strasserism. but again: the private ownership of means of production is the basis of capitalism. so "strasserism" accepted the basis of capitalism. the whole "idea" is based on silvio gesell who also wasn´t an anticapitalist

"Mob action just curious what gives you the right to decide after one post ?
I never voted btw. "

anti fascism is self defense. to vote against the "right" of a fascist to propagate his inhuman ideology is anti fascism. i don´t think that i have to discuss in other threats before i am allowed to defend myself.

[Emiliano Zapata]

^^^^ lol, i think ur in the wrong thread

[kev86]

I realize I'm new here, but I voted "no."

While I respect the call for free speech and exchange of ideas, this isn't a public policy forum or debate club. We're here to talk about the way forward for the Republican cause, and giving time to fascist scum is not conducive to that effort.

Republicans have long prided ourselves on our opposition to sectarian bigotry--we want a free Ireland for people of all faiths. The racist, anti-semitic filth spewed by neo-Nazis and their ilk is infinitely worse than the sectarianism we regularly see and fight against.

By permitting such garbage, I believe we disrespect ourselves and our history--our tradition is one of fighting against fascism, not giving them a pulpit. When Franco seized power in Spain, it was Republicans like Frank Ryan and Peader O'Donnell who organized the "Connolly Column" to go to Spain and fight the fascists.

Let the Nazis go to their own forums--there are plenty of them. This one is not for them.

Totally agree, well said

[ANE32]

I voted no! Because my Great Grandmother was not white,I have 2 nieces who are not white,Me and my family would be considered racially impure! I have seen what Nazis do,Attacking non whites,desecrating graveyards,All of which happened in the Dublin area! Not to mention the burning of hostels in Germany in which a number of immigrants died!:mad:

[CelticWarrior]

Nazi's hated religious people and the Irish are very religious, all the books say Hitler would have liked to ally himself with the Irish so as to repeat 1916 and disrupt the English in Ireland. If the Irish Free State had fought the English in Northern Ireland, yes it would have disrupted the port in Belfast and therefore disrupted the English Army as a whole, the English would have had to fight on two fronts as Hitler had to do and they would have lost the war because their main food source was American shipping. If the English lost Belfast port then they would not have a safe and direct route to the Atlantic ocean and therefore American shipping, this fighting would have meant a united Ireland but after Hitler had beaten the English he would have betrayed Ireland and made it a mere Nazi province with no religion.
Thats why NAZI'S should not be allowed on this or any Irish Republican Forum!

LIBERATION OR DEATH

[ciaranxavier]

Nazi's hated religious people and the Irish are very religious, all the books say Hitler would have liked to ally himself with the Irish so as to repeat 1916 and disrupt the English in Ireland. If the Irish Free State had fought the English in Northern Ireland, yes it would have disrupted the port in Belfast and therefore disrupted the English Army as a whole, the English would have had to fight on two fronts as Hitler had to do and they would have lost the war because their main food source was American shipping. If the English lost Belfast port then they would not have a safe and direct route to the Atlantic ocean and therefore American shipping, this fighting would have meant a united Ireland but after Hitler had beaten the English he would have betrayed Ireland and made it a mere Nazi province with no religion.
Thats why NAZI'S should not be allowed on this or any Irish Republican Forum!

LIBERATION OR DEATH

allying with the nazis in any form whether they imposed their will after or not wouldve tainted the liberation of ireland.

[Comrade Ryan]

I voted No.

Hardly surprising as I've complained about this poster recently.

He is clearly working to an agenda which is contrary to the spirit of this forum.

He consistently brings every topic down to a question of race.

He also is a prolific poster of news stories which show the 'other' in a bad light and tried to draw some general conclusion from it. Today immigrants, tomorrow blacks, etc.

I would not give people like this oxygen on here to spread their filth.

I think allowing this to continue is at best weakness on behalf of the moderators, at worst cowardice, or the lowest denominator - complicity.

[Puddies]

All nazis are cowards. Paper machet cats. Let them come.

[MarkyMark]

freedom of speech guys. he has been warned about his neo-nazi site linking and his anti jewish comments. Cant really do much more

[greektzon]

freedom of speech guys. he has been warned about his neo-nazi site linking and his anti jewish comments. Cant really do much more
Show me when i wrote anti jewish comments.

[MarkyMark]

Show me when i wrote anti jewish comments.

according to your warning log Koneko has warned you for that before

[greektzon]

''Ok.we are wrong.Palestinians are happy because they are under an oppressive Israeli military occupation. Israel is the only democracy in the Mideast!
And israel launches flowers not bombs....''

You mean this post?

[wherenow]

:eusa_shifty: Greektzom cad a cheapann tu faoi Goden Dawn?

Greektzom what do you think about Golden Dawn? Inter-racial marraige? Are balack/asian etc people who love Greece and were born there greek citizens in your mind? Do you believe all races in Greece should be treated equally before the law? Do you belive in the ongoing struggle for "race and nation" as outlined in the golden dawn link you gave us? Why did you post the picture of a white woman with the slogan love your race under it? Have the last 60 years of political correctness in Europe led to "creating a masochistic tendency for cultural destruction and biological suicide.2 as outlined in the Golden dawn link you gave us?

[ártybhoy]

Rules apply if the person isn't breaking rules then whats the problem?

[QuinnP]

How come NeoNazi's are mean to Jews? They're cool. They make up neat words like schmuck & Putz & oy! They wear neat hats. And during the Bubonic Plague, the Jews didn't all die cuz they actually took a bath more than once a year. Can you imagine what that smelled like? Must have stunk like a herd of dairy cows.

[mickyk200]

How come NeoNazi's are mean to Jews? They're cool. They make up neat words like schmuck & Putz & oy! They wear neat hats. And during the Bubonic Plague, the Jews didn't all die cuz they actually took a bath more than once a year. Can you imagine what that smelled like? Must have stunk like a herd of dairy cows.
I hardly think that would be any sort of grounds for discrediting or praising jews...
neo-nazis hate anyone that isn't an inbred nazi because the fear change and like to blame minorities for their own problems . . .a bit like loyalists, anyone notice a pattern?

[Hildy]

I hardly think that would be any sort of grounds for discrediting or praising jews...
neo-nazis hate anyone that isn't an inbred nazi because the fear change and like to blame minorities for their own problems . . .a bit like loyalists, anyone notice a pattern?


Good point! Good post!! But I think you can find this 'syndrome' in any heavily bigoted group, say as with your example the loyalists, but also the Ku Klux Klan, Macheteros, Neo-Nazis, The Order, Posse Comitatus, Skinheads, United Underground, etc. and even the 'Taliban' would qualify because of their hatred towards western world christians and women!

Read up on some of these groups and you will understand what I'm saying.

[mickyk200]

Good point! Good post!! But I think you can find this 'syndrome' in any heavily bigoted group, say as with your example the loyalists, but also the Ku Klux Klan, Macheteros, Neo-Nazis, The Order, Posse Comitatus, Skinheads, United Underground, etc. and even the 'Taliban' would qualify because of their hatred towards western world christians and women!

Read up on some of these groups and you will understand what I'm saying.
Although I am ashamed to admit it, I used to be a neo-nazi. It is something you carry around because you're p*ssed off with everything, minorities are a vent to express some hatred and a little frustration. It's just scapegoating, while making people victims it makes a small number of people a tiny bit less angry at the world.

[larkin32]

''Ok.we are wrong.Palestinians are happy because they are under an oppressive Israeli military occupation. Israel is the only democracy in the Mideast!
And israel launches flowers not bombs....''

You mean this post?
this topic was about nazis/fash....
how the fk greekton can mention the palestine/zionist situation as an excuse is at the least snide......:hmmm:
since when have fascists liked arabs......eg.FN etc
personally ...i'm fully for antifa and the policy is giving fascists no platform at all...anyfkinwhere..free speech and democracy,!!?!,,history proved where that got em...still its only a fkin forum and greekton is probably a wannabee(?)
ban em...and alll right wing racists...
:eusa_silenced:

[QuinnP]

thanks Micky!!!

[Éire32CS]

I believe in Free Speech but I do not believe either that it does any good to give these fascists a platform to speak off.

[ciaranxavier]

Good point! Good post!! But I think you can find this 'syndrome' in any heavily bigoted group, say as with your example the loyalists, but also the Ku Klux Klan, Macheteros, Neo-Nazis, The Order, Posse Comitatus, Skinheads, United Underground, etc. and even the 'Taliban' would qualify because of their hatred towards western world christians and women!

Read up on some of these groups and you will understand what I'm saying.

neo nazis and skinheads are the same group.

[mickyk200]

neo nazis and skinheads are the same group.
there are skinheads that are not nazis...

[ciaranxavier]

there are skinheads that are not nazis...

ya there called bald. or shaving your head and then its a hairstyle not a fascist group.

[Hessian Peel]

The majority of 'Skinheads' would be Anarchists not Nazi scum as far as I know.

[Mellows1922]

ya there called bald. or shaving your head and then its a hairstyle not a fascist group.

Skinheads are not a fascist group. A minority of Skins would be right wing, but that's all it is, a minority.

[Hildy]

There are many different types of 'skinheads', some are racist, some are not, some are neo-nazi'esque, some are not....here are some 'wiki' facts, if you will.....


Political categories of skinheads

There are several different political categories of skinheads. However, many skinheads don't fit into any of these categories. The usefulness of these terms is to explain the dominant forces of skinhead political groupings. There are no reliable statistics documenting how many skinheads have belonged to each category.

Anti-racist skinheads, sometimes known as SHARPs, are aggressively opposed to neo-Nazism and racism, although not always political in terms of other issues.[34][35]The label SHARP is sometimes used to describe all anti-racist skinheads, even if they aren't members of a SHARP organization. Some anti-racist skinheads have been involved with political groups such as Anti-Fascist Action or Anti-Racist Action. White power and traditional skinheads (especially in the U.S.) sometimes refer to them as baldies.

Apolitical skinheads either oppose all politics in general, are politically moderate, or keep their personal political views out of the skinhead subculture. Skinheads on either extreme of the political spectrum sometimes refer to this type as a fencesitter or fencewalker.

Left wing skinheads are anti-racist and anti-fascist, taking a militant pro-working class stance. This category includes redskins and anarchist skinheads.[36] The most well-known organization in this category is Red and Anarchist Skinheads.[37]

Right wing skinheads are conservative and patriotic, but not necessarily extreme or fascist. This type of skinhead seems to be common in the United States.[38]

White power skinheads or neo-Nazi skinheads are racist, extremely nationalist and highly political.[39][40] Many Nazi skinheads have no connection to the original 1960s skinhead culture in terms of style or interests. SHARPs and traditional skinheads often refer to them as boneheads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads

[mickyk200]

There are many different types of 'skinheads', some are racist, some are not, some are neo-nazi'esque, some are not....here are some 'wiki' facts, if you will.....
Antifa have lots of skinheads as members, neo-nazi gangs in america are composed of skinheads...
It is a taste in music and a hairstyle, nothing to do with politics, it's like saying all liberty-spkied metal heads are anarchists lol

[ciaranxavier]

There are many different types of 'skinheads', some are racist, some are not, some are neo-nazi'esque, some are not....here are some 'wiki' facts, if you will.....

if you put skinheads in broad terms like that then its no longer an organization there just people with shaved heads.

[Andy Gaw]

Leave him post..........we were victims of censorship ourselves for long enough

[ciaranxavier]

Leave him post..........we were victims of censorship ourselves for long enough

but our words didnt breed hate.

[mickyk200]

but our words didnt breed hate.
Indeed, the words of Gerry Adam's didn't compell men to go out and join the UDA...although Paisley was the PIRA's greatest recruitment officer.

[Andy Gaw]

Censorship is always wrong, no matter what tripe people are spouting. I know most forms of media censor nazi crap, but it must be heard if we are to know what our enemies think. You say we never bred hate........lets face it a large section of this country believed we did. Censorship is wrong, and wrong is wrong, even when everybody is wrong.

[fergal]

let him post as long as he sticks to the rules. if anyone was to be banned because their veiws were different from others, the forum would empty pretty quickly.
rather than ban him you should engage him and expose his beliefs for what they are.

[ártybhoy]

Yes they should be allowed as long as they don't break any of the rules by saying any of the bile they normally say.

[Rocambole]

A nazi should be allowed to stay as long as it helps him change his beliefs to become a non-nazimuslim.

[quirk]

A nazi should be allowed to stay as long as it helps him change his beliefs to become a non-nazimuslim.

Whats a nazimuslim?

[belfast rep]

Whats a nazimuslim?
you are a smart well read person, you must have heard off Abdul Hilter or Mustaf Goerring

[quirk]

you are a smart well read person, you must have heard off Abdul Hilter or Mustaf Goerring

:) Im interested to hear Rocambole's interpretation.





p.s. could you reply to the PM I sent you last night.

[Rocambole]

That's exactly what I ment. The nazi muslim connection.

[quirk]

That's exactly what I ment. The nazi muslim connection.

Explain. What Nazi Muslim connection?

[ciaranxavier]

yes please do, was hitler in bed with the saudi princesses?

[Rocambole]

yes please do, was hitler in bed with the saudi princesses?

Why would that be important? Because it throws people off?

[ciaranxavier]

Why would that be important? Because it throws people off?

good way to not answer the question. what is a nazimuslim? dont tell us we should know its pretty obvious or something like that. tell us what you think a nazimuslim is.

[quirk]

You do know Rocambole that the majority of the Nazi party were Christian? Your comment makes no sense at all

[mickyk200]

You do know Rocambole that the majority of the Nazi party were Christian? Your comment makes no sense at all
No they were jews...

[ciaranxavier]

why would he answer my sarcastic post and not the question at hand??? really odd fellow this one is.

[quirk]

I very much doubt he will answer the question but time will tell.

[Hessian Peel]

Nazis should be beaten with sticks.

[mickyk200]

Nazis should be beaten with sticks.
aye I can go with that...

[larkin32]

That's exactly what I ment. The nazi muslim connection.

whatsthe nazi connection pal?

[Rocambole]

I have answered already, the nazi muslim connection. GOOGLE IT, lame-nuts!

[quirk]

There is no nazi muslim connection and if you are the one implying there is you should at least provide a little evidence.

[BuckfastBhoy]

the only nazi muslim connection i can think of, is the shi'te brigades of the SS that hitler recruited in the last days of the war....or palestinians holding up mein kampf in demos

[ciaranxavier]

I have answered already, the nazi muslim connection. GOOGLE IT, lame-nuts!

the only lame nut here is the guy who posts two words together which absolutly dont go together and then when asked to explain it cant and calls others names. why should i google it when you could explain it to me or repost your explanation that you claim you already gave.???

[SocialistRepublican]

I really don't think that Neo-Nazis have a place on this forum at all.

If real Neo-Nazi policy was carried out to logical conclusion, there would be no room for irish independence in any way.

There may be room for debate on whether third positionists can post here but I would probably vote no on that as well.

I think racialism is unacceptable, that is ideology which hinges on racial identity. The problem is some posters here are close to that.

The much larger question is how much racial identity politics is acceptable in republicanism, if any?

[ciaranxavier]

I really don't think that Neo-Nazis have a place on this forum at all.

If real Neo-Nazi policy was carried out to logical conclusion, there would be no room for irish independence in any way.

There may be room for debate on whether third positionists can post here but I would probably vote no on that as well.

I think racialism is unacceptable, that is ideology which hinges on racial identity. The problem is some posters here are close to that.

The much larger question is how much racial identity politics is acceptable in republicanism, if any?

but if we limit freedom of speech unless it obviously racist then we are no republicans. any outright racist has been booted.

[BuckfastBhoy]

what if the person was a japanese or iranian nazi..would that be acceptable?

[ciaranxavier]

what if the person was a japanese or iranian nazi..would that be acceptable?

what kind of question is that???? any body no matter their skin or culture whos being obviously racist is unacceptable.

[BuckfastBhoy]

what kind of question is that???? any body no matter their skin or culture whos being obviously racist is unacceptable.

it was me being facetious a chara, it really is hard to detect over an internet screen i know, apolagies

[ciaranxavier]

it was me being facetious a chara, it really is hard to detect over an internet screen i know, apolagies

no problem, thats my problem with the net as well. i make a lot of my character judgements from people actions and emotions more so then what they say so it makes it hard to tell whos solid or not over the net.

[larkin32]

I have answered already, the nazi muslim connection. GOOGLE IT, lame-nuts!
please ...answer my question.. i'm not bothered about yer petty insults...over a computer.:eusa_silenced:

[mickyk200]

please ...answer my question.. i'm not bothered about yer petty insults...over a computer.:eusa_silenced:
lads ya know what they say...petty insults are counter revolutionary lol

[SocialistRepublican]

what if the person was a japanese or iranian nazi..would that be acceptable?

Any fascist would be booted, if I was grandmaster strongman.

but if we limit freedom of speech unless it obviously racist then we are no republicans. any outright racist has been booted.

Nazis and arguably turd positionists are outright racists.

I say we hunt dem daine and cot der fookin balls arff.:whip:

[larkin32]

Any fascist would be booted, if I was grandmaster strongman.



Nazis and arguably turd positionists are outright racists.

I say we hunt dem daine and cot der fookin balls arff.:whip:
exactly.

[BuckfastBhoy]

why not start with this tomas lad?

[ciaranxavier]

why not start with this tomas lad?

he treads the line but hasnt passed it since he was last banned, cant really ban a person for that.

[lambhdeargh]

Calv, mo chara....I understand what you're trying to eliminate and I'm proud of you for that.....especially when it comes to discrimination of the worst kind.

But, having said that, by doing this poll, and singling out a member on this board by labeling him a NN, and then denying him free speech here, we are in essence doing the same thing that you are accusing him of.

Do I make any sense? I think he should be treated the same as everybody else. I hope you don't think I am against you, I just don't think this is right. I for once agree with Quirk, and think he's right!

Peace,

Hildy
Hildy is right,
The right of free speech is sacrosanct, to follow a path of denying admitance to a forum on political, religious or other reasons is abhorent, allow them their voice and if they abuse their rights at least it will not be us banning them but they banning themselves.

[mickyk200]

Hildy is right,
The right of free speech is sacrosanct, to follow a path of denying admitance to a forum on political, religious or other reasons is abhorent, allow them their voice and if they abuse their rights at least it will not be us banning them but they banning themselves.
Yes but this is after all a republican forum, if people are here to out right annoy people and be pure trolls, they may be entitled to be here but they are far from welcomed by the majority of other users.We would react similarly to a loyalist or a bigot.
This is the internet and the laws of the land don't really apply here, you havn't the same rights as you would outside. We can sympathize with cenorship as republicans but republicans never said anything to annoy people there was a point to the message, the objective wasn't to irrate others.

[lambhdeargh]

Yes but this is after all a republican forum, if people are here to out right annoy people and be pure trolls, they may be entitled to be here but they are far from welcomed by the majority of other users.We would react similarly to a loyalist or a bigot.
This is the internet and the laws of the land don't really apply here, you havn't the same rights as you would outside. We can sympathize with cenorship as republicans but republicans never said anything to annoy people there was a point to the message, the objective wasn't to irrate others.

No, the point is, do people who profess to hold republicanism whatever its brand, be banned because we Irish republicans deem it suitable. There are people on this site who profess Irish republican values but who espouse nothing but hatred, bigotry and intolerance. Now who is right, us for allowing them to make their comments for debate, pro or against, or those who would deny the right to make a comment, because its deemed unsavoury? I would like the opportunity to debate as opposed to censorship. You will never change a persons opinion by denying they have a voice but by challenging them with debate!

[republicananarchist]

the golden dawn is a nazi group exist since 1981.they made a lot of militant actions against jewish locals and migrants.in 1999 one member shooted in a group of migrants and killed 3 people. the group organise festivals in the country. most of the "partys" are linke to blood and honour europe. the group isn't just nationalist, the group is a right militant wing group who works with the fascist special police togheter. for the latest example look the links

articel indymedia athen http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=en&article_id=823380

video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5999147929115257844

two interessting pictures
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=823982

[SocialistRepublican]

We would react similarly to a loyalist or a bigot.

Yep. Fascists have about as much in common with republicanism as loyalists do.

The question shouldn't about fascism. It's more about what kind of national sentiments we should tolerate.

[lambhdeargh]

Yep. Fascists have about as much in common with republicanism as loyalists do.

The question shouldn't about fascism. It's more about what kind of national sentiments we should tolerate.

Its not about toleration but debate, some on this thread seem to think we should neither tolerate nor debate with those who hold differing views, but we already do so, and they see no difference! Isreal is a question in point, many see Isreals actions as defensable, whilst others view their actions as no better than those which they wish to ban! I personally see current Isreali dogma as no different than that of Herr Hitler and his mass killing machine, but I am open to debate. God forbid that I should close my mind to cognisant and forthright argument!

[SocialistRepublican]

some on this thread seem to think we should neither tolerate nor debate with those who hold differing views, but we already do so, and they see no difference!

It's not about different views, it's about objectionable views.

In my view, fascist views are objectionable because they are outright racist.

However, there are some third positionists that use a lot of left ideas because they are good and popular ideas but also because they recruit people that might otherwise join left wing orgs.

[lambhdeargh]

It's not about different views, it's about objectionable views.

In my view, fascist views are objectionable because they are outright racist.

However, there are some third positionists that use a lot of left ideas because they are good and popular ideas but also because they recruit people that might otherwise join left wing orgs.

And as I have said, those who support Isreali doctrine differ where? what, in that they take longer to do the same job! Nazism, national socialism, nationalism, no matter what name you call it hides under many different guises. Unfortunately we seem to miss many of these nom de guerres but focus on those that are relevant to us, but this also is a futher distraction. Condemn facism but recognise it in other countries.

[SocialistRepublican]

People who may have some illusions that they don't have some fascistic ideas are different to people who openly call themselves fascist.

I think some aspects of zionism is fascistic but it's not fascism.

That is beside the point, however. I'd expect pro-imperialist zionists to be banned as well.

[lambhdeargh]

People who may have some illusions that they don't have some fascistic ideas are different to people who openly call themselves fascist.

I think some aspects of zionism is fascistic but it's not fascism.

That is beside the point, however. I'd expect pro-imperialist zionists to be banned as well.

Well you will be blowing in the wind! as exponents of these views, freely associate and profer views that you and I abhor, on this site and no doubt on many others. My view is that we should recognise such and highlight the same for debate and ridicule.

[SocialistRepublican]

Well you will be whistling in the wind!

How is that?

[lambhdeargh]

Because those which we abhor are already posting and making comments!

[lambhdeargh]

Because those which we abhor are already posting and making comments!

If in doubt, I refer to talk****e and tomas!

[Young Irelander]

Neo-Nazis, will considering that the political ideology in which this man supports in the Nazi-Germany massacred and commited acts against the Human Race and killed indiscriminately against Jews and other races of people, what about these peoples rights? They have none because their lives are cut short, if the Neo-Nazi denies such infamous events as Halocaust then he should be banned and does the Neo-Nazi groups like Combat 18 not have mild support for loyalism and had reported connections with the UVF and LVF, did these groups which support Neo-Nazis not several times critisice the Provisional IRA and condemned all Irish Roman Catholics to hell for their views against the Pope and the leadership of the Roman Catholic Religious Denomination?

[Rocambole]

I do not understand why so many people are repeating the lies that say Israel is commitiing genocide and holocaust and all these other hyperbolic acts against the population which they so graciously allowed to stay in the areas which they lost to Israel in the 6-day war, when the people living there were not allowed by their own countrys to move further inland, because these countries wanted a situation like this.

Just last week you could plainly see that these people are not allowed back into their own countrys even when threatened by death from hunger and cold, yet you insist that Israel, the country which is their ENEMY, and only enemy, take them into the general population. Forcing Israel to take them in would be against all international conventions and laws.


Also, what is this SICK OBSESSION of calling Israel ISREAL? Is it just stupidity, or some lame play of words?


Muslims just burned down fifteen schools and hundreds of cars and destroyed and burned businesses in the city of Copenhagen this night, under the PRETEXT of muhammed cartoons, because they want the city for themselves as a separate part of denmark, just like they want cities in France and the Netherlands and Germany and Sweden, and they all make the same claims here where they were not before, as they do against Israel, so damn right, Israel is my measure of justice, and I will NEVER believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a muslim!

As I and my comrades prepare for IMMEDIATE AND BRUTAL WAR IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, we rest assured that we know the truth.

[larkin32]

:stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::s tupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::st
upid::stupid::stupid:

[Young Irelander]

Isreal are debeatable to by planting alot of cluster bombs in Lebanon, and destroying all the infrastructure in the country what did that achieve? Just more hatrid and support for the Islamic movement Hezbollah...

[Young Irelander]

Isreal are debeatable to by planting alot of cluster bombs in Lebanon, and destroying all the infrastructure in the country what did that achieve? Just more hatrid and support for the Islamic movement Hezbollah...

[Rocambole]

So mr. genius, were they planted, or did they fall out of the sky?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

LAMHDEARG(RED HAND) how dare you imply i am a neo nazi,have i ever claimed to be? if not what gives you the right to brand me as such,i have never posted anything close to sympathetic to naziism,or the like.by your logic i can brand you a Red hand defender loyalist.close minded tunnel vision stupidity.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Larkin32 are just a spotty little teen,with nothing better to do,or are you realy that simple?

[lambhdeargh]

LAMHDEARG(RED HAND) how dare you imply i am a neo nazi,have i ever claimed to be? if not what gives you the right to brand me as such,i have never posted anything close to sympathetic to naziism,or the like.by your logic i can brand you a Red hand defender loyalist.close minded tunnel vision stupidity.

So where did I brand you a Nazi? I said I abhor you and your views so get yer facts straight tomas you are not a republican and your views and words support this. So pull yer head from yer arse and wipe the shyt from yer eyes and see the real world.

[Carlos McJackle]

Not about him. About us treating people the same. If he keeps stepping out of line then he will be banned.


i dont believe neo nazis should be treated the same as normal people . Nazism is a perversion not a political philosophy. The same attitude should be taken to one as to someone belonging to party promoting child sexual abuse . No platform for perverts . Nazism is a perversion dressed up in political clothes . Its about singling out human beings from marginalised areas of society , scapegoating them for societys ills and usually ultimately killing them . Its just hatred with a political cloak , a moral perversion .

[quirk]

I agree to that with people who are hard core Nazi's but I didn't think the person in question was (or at least was unable to tell yet). Some people, especially youth are drawn towards such ideologies for a number of reasons yet can be won over from this with some reasoned discussion. To immediately ban people rather than engage will only ensure that the only arguments they hear in future is the Nazi one.

[lambhdeargh]

I agree to that with people who are hard core Nazi's but I didn't think the person in question was (or at least was unable to tell yet). Some people, especially youth are drawn towards such ideologies for a number of reasons yet can be won over from this with some reasoned discussion. To immediately ban people rather than engage will only ensure that the only arguments they hear in future is the Nazi one.
Well said.
It seems many Republicans wish only to debate with themselves and exclude the voices from others, who may or may not become swayed by our arguments. If we can only debate with ourselves, then I see my patronage of this site as surplus to requirements!

[SocialistRepublican]

I will NEVER believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a muslim!

This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

[SocialistRepublican]

Well said.
It seems many Republicans wish only to debate with themselves and exclude the voices from others, who may or may not become swayed by our arguments.

It's not productive for republicans to have some nutter derailing our dicsussions.

[Eilish]

I agree to that with people who are hard core Nazi's but I didn't think the person in question was (or at least was unable to tell yet). Some people, especially youth are drawn towards such ideologies for a number of reasons yet can be won over from this with some reasoned discussion. To immediately ban people rather than engage will only ensure that the only arguments they hear in future is the Nazi one.
Fascist ideologies can appeal or seem valid to the naive because they believe the lie such a thing as race/scientific racism etcera are exist. One race - the human race - the rest is diverse cultures. There is a proliferation of promoting white supremacy on Youtube by young Irish with messages of hate twds non-Irish immigrants. Their profound hate & ignorance is strikingly evil yet they justify it by claiming cultural rights... More ignorance. No-one can kill off your culture as it is in your spirit not just blood. They can crush denigrate try to kill it but will never win.

[Eilish]

I find it ironic that people screech no neo-nazis etc yet i would prefer those who are to identify their poison. At least one knows what they stand for. Challenging their poison is tedious as they are in the vortex of delusion so heavily it is like pushing feces uphill.....
I am more leery of & alert to those who appear to be all for equality and cultural rights yet treat immigrants/non Irish etc like 2nd class citizens... or make comments that shows what really is underpinning their beliefs... that being deluded cultural or skin color supremacy... No-one can steal your culture only crush raze denigrate mock it. Your culture is in your spirit not flesh - in my belief & the 10 knew that.......
The stench of colonialism/the delusional myth of 'scientific racism' impacts into the 21st century. Eire is not devoid of white supremacy irrespective of our ppl once being the 'white niggers' of Europe. How easily people forget... how easily the false pride of supremacy rears it's pus-ridden head. Hardcore neonazis are not the brightest ppl so perhaps a wee bit of edumakation here might bring a chink of light into their maggot encrusted minds...

[mickyk200]

I find it ironic that people screech no neo-nazis etc yet i would prefer those who are to identify their poison. At least one knows what they stand for. Challenging their poison is tedious as they are in the vortex of delusion so heavily it is like pushing feces uphill.....
I am more leery of & alert to those who appear to be all for equality and cultural rights yet treat immigrants/non Irish etc like 2nd class citizens... or make comments that shows what really is underpinning their beliefs... that being deluded cultural or skin color supremacy... No-one can steal your culture only crush raze denigrate mock it. Your culture is in your spirit not flesh - in my belief & the 10 knew that.......
The stench of colonialism/the delusional myth of 'scientific racism' impacts into the 21st century. Eire is not devoid of white supremacy irrespective of our ppl once being the 'white niggers' of Europe. How easily people forget... how easily the false pride of supremacy rears it's pus-ridden head. Hardcore neonazis are not the brightest ppl so perhaps a wee bit of edumakation here might bring a chink of light into their maggot encrusted minds...
"The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud."

[kildare brigade]

kick him off!! no room 4 that sort of s..t

[East Tyrone]

kick him off!! no room 4 that sort of s..t

I think that's a quote from 'The Commitments'. Mickyk200 is not a racist, no need to worry there mo chara.

[larkin32]

Larkin32 are just a spotty little teen,with nothing better to do,or are you realy that simple?
hey you changed yer name mo chara...what next.

[belfast rep]

hey you changed yer name mo chara...what next.

Enoch O Powell

[RSF-Fianoglach]

belfast rep you about as funny as a boil on the arse.why dont you change your name to stalin O lunatic.

[belfast rep]

belfast rep you about as funny as a boil on the arse.why dont you change your name to stalin O lunatic.

I am so funny your copying my jokes, i think a boil on your arse would be a geg

[no one]

LAMHDEARG(RED HAND) how dare you imply i am a neo nazi,have i ever claimed to be? if not what gives you the right to brand me as such,i have never posted anything close to sympathetic to naziism,or the like.by your logic i can brand you a Red hand defender loyalist.close minded tunnel vision stupidity.

zionism is the new nazism as far as im concerned.

all your anti islamic/arab rants would be considered the same thing if you switched out a few words with jew here and there. hate is hate.

[greektzon]

I would ask when you said Neo-nazis you mean and zionism,and for those who support Stalin and the Nation of Islam for example?

[no one]

i dont support stalin, and who said anything about the nation of islam?

[ciaranxavier]

i think hes just trying to make the point that its not only jew haters that should be considered as that seems to be the common centre for reference.

[no one]

greektzon do you even know what the nation of islam is? when did anyone refer to the nation at any time?

[dkm1973]

There is no pride in putting others down to raise your own.

[lurganbhoy]

I voted no because I am strongly against neo nazi's and racism, especially loyalist neo nazis. lol however though I have just signed up and theres alot to read here and I don't really know what he has said or what his beliefs are. Anti-zionist and Anti-Jew are two different things. Zionists believe they have a right to a homeland - israel. There are jewish people that are against this and are anti-zionist. The loyalists fly israel flags, so that really says it all.

[greektzon]

greektzon do you even know what the nation of islam is? when did anyone refer to the nation at any time?

yes i know what is the Nation of islam.Do you know the Dr.Khallid abdul muhammad?Or not?
he is nazi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oEhtQvvRwE

[no one]

like i asked you, who brought up the nation of islam? that was never in any topic of discussion besides this one in which you brought it up.

and how are you gonna tell me that a black man is a nazi?

do you have trouble with the english language and the meanings of words?

[Hessian Peel]

yes i know what is the Nation of islam.Do you know the Dr.Khallid abdul muhammad?Or not?
he is nazi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oEhtQvvRwE

He was a hateful piece of sh*t.

[no one]

there wasnt anyone who was defending him, or even said a single word about him. i think greektzon is confused.

[ultima_thule]

As long as the rules of this forum has been followed to everything goes and that´s my opinion. If someone has something creative to say about Irish republicanism I´m listening no matter what their political agenda. I don´t have to like it, but freedom is a two edged sword, we have to allow all opinions even how radical they seem to us.

H

[OCoinnigh]

As long as the rules of this forum has been followed to everything goes and that´s my opinion. If someone has something creative to say about Irish republicanism I´m listening no matter what their political agenda. I don´t have to like it, but freedom is a two edged sword, we have to allow all opinions even how radical they seem to us.

*H

My God
Somebody on here made sense!

[tireoghan]

Everyone should be allowed to post and debate on here, as long as they are not promoting hatred of any kind and follow the rules of the forum.
Republicanism is about inclusivity and giving a voice to everyone - not about censorship. Everyone should be given a chance.

[supporter]

This is a hard theme...
I share Noam Chomskys opinion about censorship...it´s stupid and plays into the hands of those which like to be better than others...
The better choice is to beat racist and fascist lies with facts, but there is one big problem cheap slogans and phrases (like neo-nazis use it) are hard to rebutting with true facts...

and i´m worried about nazis which try to get in touch with left(radical) opinions, and movements like the republican is, a movement for socialism, equality and freedom...

So i don´t like to speak with people full of dumb stereotypes and a mentality of hate! "Modern Nazis" propagate "ethno-pluralism" (which is nothing more than another word for racism)...so same procedure like hitler.

"Fascism is not an opinion, it's a crime."

[RSF-Fianoglach]

well it all depends on whos interpretation of a neo nazi it is,too many people on this forum use words like nazi bigot racist out of context,so it is nearly impossible to take any fool shouting racist seriously,the word on this forum has lost meaning.it should be as much an offence to wrongly call someone racist as it is to be a racist.

[Vox Populi]

I don't believe your a neo-Nazi Tomas, but you are a fascist definatly.

[Nijinsky]

well it all depends on whos interpretation of a neo nazi it is,too many people on this forum use words like nazi bigot racist out of context,so it is nearly impossible to take any fool shouting racist seriously,the word on this forum has lost meaning.it should be as much an offence to wrongly call someone racist as it is to be a racist.

Who has wrongly called someone a racist here Tomas?

[ciaranxavier]

well it all depends on whos interpretation of a neo nazi it is,too many people on this forum use words like nazi bigot racist out of context,so it is nearly impossible to take any fool shouting racist seriously,the word on this forum has lost meaning.it should be as much an offence to wrongly call someone racist as it is to be a racist.

no your one of those religious zealots id say.

[Amach na Casca]

I believe in freedom of speech, and everyone should be entitled to give their opinion, even neo nazis. If people come on to deliberately troll however, they should be banned..... My two cents anyway

[Hessian Peel]

I believe in freedom of speech, and everyone should be entitled to give their opinion, even neo nazis. If people come on to deliberately troll however, they should be banned..... My two cents anyway

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1616832_antifa09.jpg

[Ernie O'Malley]

Hitler loved the old freedom of Speech, it allowed for him to gee up the 11 year old Youths in 1929 so by the time they were 21 they were already experienced mass murders.

[Amach na Casca]

So do you guys agree with Section 31 of the broadcasting act, which banned Sinn Féin, and IRA representatives from been broadcast in the 70, 80s then?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Hitler loved the old freedom of Speech, it allowed for him to gee up the 11 year old Youths in 1929 so by the time they were 21 they were already experienced mass murders.

just like oul stalin and mao,marxists and fascists are two sides of the same coin.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

So do you guys agree with Section 31 of the broadcasting act, which banned Sinn Féin, and IRA representatives from been broadcast in the 70, 80s then?

by sinn fein i presume you mean provisional,no i didnt agree with it then,but it should be enacted against them now,there west brits now.

[Amach na Casca]

by sinn fein i presume you mean provisional,no i didnt agree with it then,but it should be enacted against them now,there west brits now.

:icon_lol: It might have got Adams off the hook after he made a balls of last years pre-election debate anyway.

[larkin32]

I don't believe your a neo-Nazi Tomas, but you are a fascist definatly.:eusa_silenced:

Who has wrongly called someone a racist here Tomas?

:eusa_dance:

[KillinSnakes]

No platform for fascists.

[KillinSnakes]

just like oul stalin and mao,marxists and fascists are two sides of the same coin.

What nonsense, I would love to see you explain this.

[ultima_thule]

:icon_laugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fNb8bTkx1kM

[belfast rep]

absolutely brilliant:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[belfast rep]

What nonsense, I would love to see you explain this.

trust me he will, it will be totally illogical, but he give it a go

[Hessian Peel]

:icon_laugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fNb8bTkx1kM

:icon_laugh::icon_laugh::icon_laugh::bow:

[greektzon]

Freedom of speach.Yes.
Allow neonazis on this forum.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=95407

[mickyk200]

Freedom of speach.Yes.
Allow neonazis on this forum.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=95407
They can come on...there's nothing to stop them. Eventually they will be banned or shunned so I fail to see the point in this thread upon further review.

[ciaranxavier]

Freedom of speach.Yes.
Allow neonazis on this forum.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=95407

so you agree that people should be allowed to judge someone by their religion or race?

[greektzon]

so you agree that people should be allowed to judge someone by their religion or race?

I think we have 2008 and not 1939.
When you said neonazis,you mean Germans or jews?
I dont understand.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=97325

[ciaranxavier]

I think we have 2008 and not 1939.
When you said neonazis,you mean Germans or jews?
I dont understand.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=97325

k lets try this again read my question and then answer it appropriatly as this doesnt touch base with my question at all.

[HimThere]

they shouldnt be stopped coming on to the forum but any racist remarks they make should not be allowed

[no one]

neo-nazis have nothing to do with republicanism, they can go to fascist forums, they have no place here.

freedom of speech in the real world i completely agree with, but this is a REPUBLICAN site, nazis and rascists should have no platform here.

[Hildy]

neo-nazis have nothing to do with republicanism, they can go to fascist forums, they have no place here.

freedom of speech in the real world i completely agree with, but this is a REPUBLICAN site, nazis and rascists should have no platform here.


no one, mo chara......this is a chance to expose them for their ignorance and bigotry, out-debate them with your rapier wit and intelligence. To shun them is giving credibility to their propaganda by others who will defend their right to get their message out! A good argument will refute their lies and beliefs and expose them for the 'hate-mongers' they are.......... and you, my dear become the hero!!!

You are up for the job, I know you have all the attributes to be the victor in this challenge!

Cheers, Hildy!:)

[Hessian Peel]

You don't debate with Neo-Nazis.

A hammer to the kneecaps ought to do the trick.

[belfast rep]

You don't debate with Neo-Nazis.

A hammer to the kneecaps ought to do the trick.


while agreeing with your first point, Nazis tend not to debate, but look for forums to express their disgusting views, they do try to hide or sanitize the extend of their facism, but they are looking for a platform not enlightment, i am against given them a platform,
as for enver's method of enlighting them, as racism grows and becomes ever more violent i don't believe people should limit their options

[Hessian Peel]

while agreeing with your first point, Nazis tend not to debate, but look for forums to express their disgusting views, they do try to hide or sanitize the extend of their facism, but they are looking for a platform not enlightment, i am against given them a platform,
as for enver's method of enlighting them, as racism grows and becomes ever more violent i don't believe people should limit their options

Opposing them physically (in the street or whatever) won't be enough further down the line.

[belfast rep]

Opposing them physically (in the street or whatever) won't be enough further down the line.
hence do not limit your options

[larkin32]

neo-nazis have nothing to do with republicanism, they can go to fascist forums, they have no place here.

freedom of speech in the real world i completely agree with, but this is a REPUBLICAN site, nazis and rascists should have no platform here.
quite ****ing right..... fascism is opposed to free speech and evryting "we"stand for.
no one, mo chara......this is a chance to expose them for their ignorance and bigotry, out-debate them with your rapier wit and intelligence. To shun them is giving credibility to their propaganda by others who will defend their right to get their message out! A good argument will refute their lies and beliefs and expose them for the 'hate-mongers' they are.......... and you, my dear become the hero!!!

You are up for the job, I know you have all the attributes to be the victor in this challenge!

Cheers, Hildy!:)we know what they "think"... and its nothing,,but hatred.. theey dont deserve a platform anywhere..least of all a leftist site...

You don't debate with Neo-Nazis.

A hammer to the kneecaps ought to do the trick.Exactly

[Velasco]

This members beleifs are based on Nazism and racial hatred. By signing up to this forum, he has come here to make his beleifs heard, so what your saying is he should be allowed to post racist comments? If your answer is no, then there is really no logic in allowing him to stay on this forum.

+1

Their racial herarchy is not only in a human way but also in a community/country way. They keep subordination as a rule, and so no country could be really set free under that kind of beleifs.

[roberta]

I don't like to see anyone's freedom of speech denied. If this person who is identified as a NN denied the opportunity to speak because of their beliefs, what else could be found objectionable? Who makes the decision as to what is acceptable and what isn't? This is a tough one. Just because someone speaks does not mean we have to listen.

[Signature]

I think it's disgraceful groups like the KKK and neo-Nazis groups are allowed in USA. I also oppose any political parties of this type.

However, I think they should be allowed on the forum as long as they don't say racist things. If we isolate these people than there will be little chance they will ever hear the other view and change their opinion.

[ciaranxavier]

I think it's disgraceful groups like the KKK and neo-Nazis groups are allowed in USA. I also oppose any political parties of this type.

However, I think they should be allowed on the forum as long as they don't say racist things. If we isolate these people than there will be little chance they will ever hear the other view and change their opinion.

you dont want them in your country but you think they should be allowed on this forum, a little hypocritical dont you think. kind of that whole as long as its not in my own backyard mentality?

[1913]

No Platform For Fascists.

End of.


Taken from a British Student website:

No platform means excluding fascists from all debate. At first glance it appears a strange policy for 'democrats' to want, and it does upset some freedom of speech campaigners. But fascists hold such dete