Question for all SF People

[southarmaghceltic1888]

Hi all Sinn Fein supporters. Now im going to ask a question that may be annoying to you guys but i still don't get it. This is a serious question that i have been thinking about for a long time. If some one can give me a good point i may start to support SF more.

How in the world will is supporting A British police force, and accepting partition going to get any closer to a united Ireland?

I really hope some one can help me out because I still can't see this as a way forward. I really want some one to bring up a strong point so i can rethink on my an anti SF stance. Thanks.

[JPL]

It brings stability to the area, lessens the divide between the people and gives peace a chance so that the people of Ireland actually have a reason to Unite. The peace process is used as a stepping stone for totally Unity and freedom in Ireland. Supporting policing brings Catholic persuasion into the equation to a before biased police force and trys to level the field.

The alternative is a war which we inevitably can't win, will cause the loss of many lives and will create even further divide.. Not only between the nationalists and loyalists... but between the average Joe in Ireland who will not want to support a war - and by common census - the average Joe doesn't want war in Ireland - he just wants peace.

We should not have to answer why our means will bring Unity in Ireland - You should answer why armed struggle will bring Unity. I assure you - I can answer your question alot easier than you can answer mine.

[Seabird]

Good reply JPL.

[JPL]

Go raibh maith agat :)

[duggie-89]

Hi all Sinn Fein supporters. Now im going to ask a question that may be annoying to you guys but i still don't get it. This is a serious question that i have been thinking about for a long time. If some one can give me a good point i may start to support SF more.

How in the world will is supporting A British police force, and accepting partition going to get any closer to a united Ireland?

I really hope some one can help me out because I still can't see this as a way forward. I really want some one to bring up a strong point so i can rethink on my an anti SF stance. Thanks.

wel firstly i think JPL's answer was good i hope i can explain my point as well lol

firstly the police was used as a second paramilitary force by the brits and with more catholics and nationalist joining then such an obstacle such as the police will be diluted and even changed.

also its not about the now its about the future, its looking at the bigger picture. when ever a united ireland is acheived if the police force isn't tackled then we as a society is going to be in a sorry state.

also the main problem with britain staying here is the unionist community so we need to break down barriers and by doing that we need to sign up to an accountable police force and if we are seen to be signing up to the police then what have the unionist got to fear?? and since fear breeds hate and hate breeds division and division is what the brits main policy is DIVIDE and Conqueor. it surly is a step in the right direction.

but how do you feel about the future role of the armed struggle bringin about a united ireland??

just out of curosity do you know who von otto bismarck is??? and his role in achieving a united germany????

[Seabird]

duggie,

You did quite nicely at explaining yer point!:)

[East Tyrone]

wel firstly i think JPL's answer was good i hope i can explain my point as well lol

firstly the police was used as a second paramilitary force by the brits and with more catholics and nationalist joining then such an obstacle such as the police will be diluted and even changed.

also its not about the now its about the future, its looking at the bigger picture. when ever a united ireland is acheived if the police force isn't tackled then we as a society is going to be in a sorry state.

also the main problem with britain staying here is the unionist community so we need to break down barriers and by doing that we need to sign up to an accountable police force and if we are seen to be signing up to the police then what have the unionist got to fear?? and since fear breeds hate and hate breeds division and division is what the brits main policy is DIVIDE and Conqueor. it surly is a step in the right direction.

but how do you feel about the future role of the armed struggle bringin about a united ireland??

just out of curosity do you know who von otto bismarck is??? and his role in achieving a united germany????

I have to say I'm very much in agreement with what you have said here. I think that Nationalist involvement in policing is vital as it provides in built deterrents against future Loyalist aggression as well as the opportunity to tackle criminality issues within Nationalist communities.
Collusion was widespread and institutionalised; it has been part of the establishment for centuries. Only oversight by Nationalists on the ground can address this Loyalist tradition. I, for one welcome, the prospect of trained and armed Nationalists in the community; I fail to see how anyone can argue against such a realistic deterrent against future pogroms.
All of the above lead to more confident communities which will be more capable of having confidence in others. Divide and conquer is still at work, however, and it is ironic that it is Republican militancy that is being manipulated by the British to undermine the confidence and development of the Nationalist community.

[DFCRFB]

think those two answers are very well put.

The Police were a tool for the unionist people to get at us, create mistruss within communities and kill our people. Well now we have the chance to get in there and do something about it. Have our voice heard in it now.
Policing isnt going to be sorted out over night, we all know that but were on the right road now of trying to do it.

[robertemmett]

It brings stability to the area, lessens the divide between the people and gives peace a chance so that the people of Ireland actually have a reason to Unite. The peace process is used as a stepping stone for totally Unity and freedom in Ireland. Supporting policing brings Catholic persuasion into the equation to a before biased police force and trys to level the field.

The alternative is a war which we inevitably can't win, will cause the loss of many lives and will create even further divide.. Not only between the nationalists and loyalists... but between the average Joe in Ireland who will not want to support a war - and by common census - the average Joe doesn't want war in Ireland - he just wants peace.

We should not have to answer why our means will bring Unity in Ireland - You should answer why armed struggle will bring Unity. I assure you - I can answer your question alot easier than you can answer mine.

pity some body didnt come with that idea in 1969

[JPL]

pity some body didnt come with that idea in 1969

You always have something to say, don't you?

[Vox Populi]

How will Sinn Fein change policing?

What authority do Sinn Fein have over the PSNI?

Why are the PSNI within their rights to refuse to answer questions at DPP meetings?

[East Tyrone]

How will Sinn Fein change policing?

What authority do Sinn Fein have over the PSNI?

Why are the PSNI within their rights to refuse to answer questions at DPP meetings?

Sinn Féin will change policing by changing the environment within which policing occurs and the personnel who do the policing. By lobbying for policing of Nationalist areas, increasingly by Nationalists, Sinn Féin have helped change the nature and environment of policing. As the number of Nationalists in thhe police increases so too will the the influence of the wider Nationalist community.
There is still not enough devolved authority or accountability in policing. Sinn Féin are working to redress this. Sitting on the sidelines afraid to engage and sneering at those who do will never achieve anything.

[Vox Populi]

Sinn Fein have no authority whatsoever over the PSNI. Sinn Fein will help normalise British rule, a PSNI officer on the panel in Beechmount Leisure Center mentioned this a few times but critically they can't hold the PSNI to account because they have no authority to. Although their grassroots were told at a meeting in Shantallow last year that they could even sack Hugh Orde.

[East Tyrone]

Sinn Fein have no authority whatsoever over the PSNI. Sinn Fein will help normalise British rule, a PSNI officer on the panel in Beechmount Leisure Center mentioned this a few times but critically they can't hold the PSNI to account because they have no authority to. Although their grassroots were told at a meeting in Shantallow last year that they could even sack Hugh Orde.

Sinn Féin are lobbying for devolved authority over policing which will redress this situation to some extent. British rule will never be "normal" to a significant number of Nationalists; do they wear a lot of northern Ireland shirts round where you live? Confident stable Nationalist communities can build consensus for unity in a progressive manner. The alternative is regressive strategies that will erode the confidence and stability of Nationalist communities and deter the formation of a consensus for unification.

[eire nua rfb]

nothing can be achieved from the outside.if your not in you cant win. sinn fein have seen this and have come up with the answer, that they need to break them from within.

i went to the ard fheis in dublin, attended many talks on policing. our politicans know exactly what they doing. from hearing these talks it has changed my view point on the current situation.
maybe this video will cange yours.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6308175.stm

[duggie-89]

pity some body didnt come with that idea in 1969

lol now i thought of your more than that. the brits wouldn't have accepted our rights then its only after all those years of war they have been forced to realise and come to the table.

[duggie-89]

wel personal i disagree, there is some stuff that can be achived on the sidelines but it only works for so long and can only change a minimal amout. if republicans are serious about the whole police issue and its need to change then more direct and hands on action is needed and thats what SF are doing.

[southarmaghceltic1888]

Correct me if im wrong but didn't Collins see partiton as a stepping stone to a United Ireland when he blew off the 6 counties? So how is this any different?

[East Tyrone]

Correct me if im wrong but didn't Collins see partiton as a stepping stone to a United Ireland when he blew off the 6 counties? So how is this any different?

Collins never "blew off the 6 counties"; he was still sending gear across the border to defend Catholics from pograms and he would have been genuine in his belief that a properly handled boundary commision would have delieverd more to work with. The reason why the stepping stones stalled, the border commission was a fiasco and the northern Catholics were abandoned was simple; Collins was taken out by Brit agents within his own escort. This paved the way for the Donaldsons of that era like Eoin MacNeill (Mickey McDowell's granda) who's complicity ensured the failure of the boundary commission. The civil war that was almost over got seriously viscious thereafter; no doubt the Brits had a hand in the direction of the atrocities and executions.
Now there hasn't been a civil war, the northern Catholics have civil rights and aren't subject to pogram, the international media are present in this information age of evolving attitudes and the Brits are no longer an imperial power worried about the knock-on effects of loss of face in Ireland.

[wherenow]

Is thread iontach é seo. Ach tá suil agam nah mbeidh sé millte. Ba choir duine ó gruppanna eile ceisteanna a chuir ach nior mhaith liom slaging match eile a fheiceil.

This is a great thread, but I hope it does not get ruined. I really want to hear SF's answers to questions about where they are heading. Could people from opposong groups please just post questions because I don't want to see another slanging match, I just want SF to put their side. Maybe the other groups could do the same on their areas?

[duggie-89]

Is thread iontach é seo. Ach tá suil agam nah mbeidh sé millte. Ba choir duine ó gruppanna eile ceisteanna a chuir ach nior mhaith liom slaging match eile a fheiceil.

This is a great thread, but I hope it does not get ruined. I really want to hear SF's answers to questions about where they are heading. Could people from opposong groups please just post questions because I don't want to see another slanging match, I just want SF to put their side. Maybe the other groups could do the same on their areas?

yea i think thats a great idea!!

[southarmaghceltic1888]

I don't see it as a stepping stone though because Unionists still hold the majority and i don't think theyll change their views on United Ireland just because SInn Fein accepts policing now.

[Jim]

Collins never "blew off the 6 counties"; he was still sending gear across the border to defend Catholics from pograms and he would have been genuine in his belief that a properly handled boundary commision would have delieverd more to work with. The reason why the stepping stones stalled, the border commission was a fiasco and the northern Catholics were abandoned was simple; Collins was taken out by Brit agents within his own escort. This paved the way for the Donaldsons of that era like Eoin MacNeill (Mickey McDowell's granda) who's complicity ensured the failure of the boundary commission. The civil war that was almost over got seriously viscious thereafter; no doubt the Brits had a hand in the direction of the atrocities and executions.
Now there hasn't been a civil war, the northern Catholics have civil rights and aren't subject to pogram, the international media are present in this information age of evolving attitudes and the Brits are no longer an imperial power worried about the knock-on effects of loss of face in Ireland.


Truth of the matter is Collins could have done very little had he survived for a couple of reasons.
Firstly the likes of griffith,cosgrave and kevin o'higgins strove to bring the freestate army under governmental control and not under the control of collins,mulcahy,o duffy.This meant that any invasion or future arms transportation would have been the freestate government responsibility and they would never sanction anything like that as they didnt have a mandate to do so.

Secondly the boundary commission was basically a talking shop as lloyd george told carson and collins two completely different stories on the effectiveness of the commission which absolved the british government of responsiblity and gave collins something to sell the treaty on as partition was without doubt the weak link in collins selling of the treaty.

Eoin McNeill could not have done anymore on the boundary commission than anyone else considering that the freestaters hadnt a leg to stand on in the talks while the unionists had the full backing of the british government as they still have today.
The freestaters when they accepted britains writ over ireland didnt uphold irish sovereignty or the rights of the people of ireland to decide their own future.
For example if the freestaters had have said we'll break the treaty over this then the british would have said that we signed this agreement in good faith and if you reject the treaty now we'll take over the south,nothing would have stopped them only republicans.

The situation today is very similar,the cross border bodies are potrayed as a stepping stone to an united ireland by the provos and copperfastening partition whilst improving the economic stability of the northern state by the unionists.
The british are portrayed as an "honest broker" between the "two warring factions" and the southern government have the constituitional imperative to claim the 6 counties removed from the southern constituition.

Someone made an incorrect suggestion that the alternative to the provo "peace strategy" is war, there are many other alternatives to armed struggle provided by republican groups and the reason why the provos suggest that its them or war is because their political strategy doesnt hold up to scrutiny.

If the provos could dismiss our strategy or policy then why did they lie about not receiving our submission or when they made a request for a meeting with us at the time of the policing debates when asked why they didnt respond to our submission they told outright lies to sunday newspapers saying we rejected there request?

I would appeal to any provo member or supporter to see what is going on in front of them with the acceptance of british police etc and if people are not prepared to get involved in republican separatism then be prepared to constantly question your leadership over the way forward because your been led by the nose folks and the only way you'll see it is by holding the cause and ireland in higher regard than the organisation.

[East Tyrone]

Truth of the matter is Collins could have done very little had he survived for a couple of reasons.
Firstly the likes of griffith,cosgrave and kevin o'higgins strove to bring the freestate army under governmental control and not under the control of collins,mulcahy,o duffy.This meant that any invasion or future arms transportation would have been the freestate government responsibility and they would never sanction anything like that as they didnt have a mandate to do so.
Nobody knows what would have happened if Collins had lived. The Free State cabinet didn't stop him sending assassins to try and kill a Brit minister in london; after the treaty had been signed. There would never have been an invasion but there may also never have been the level of animosity and division within the south (Breen cried when he heard Collins' death when in prison) and the level of abandonment of northerners and demonisation of Republicans may not have occured. For one thing, that creepin Jesus c*nt DeValera would not have been as significant if Collins had lived.

Secondly the boundary commission was basically a talking shop as lloyd george told carson and collins two completely different stories on the effectiveness of the commission which absolved the british government of responsiblity and gave collins something to sell the treaty on as partition was without doubt the weak link in collins selling of the treaty.

Eoin McNeill could not have done anymore on the boundary commission than anyone else considering that the freestaters hadnt a leg to stand on in the talks while the unionists had the full backing of the british government as they still have today.
The freestaters when they accepted britains writ over ireland didnt uphold irish sovereignty or the rights of the people of ireland to decide their own future.
For example if the freestaters had have said we'll break the treaty over this then the british would have said that we signed this agreement in good faith and if you reject the treaty now we'll take over the south,nothing would have stopped them only republicans.
The staters never tried to get the boundary commission to work; they inherited an impoverished mess of a country and had no interest in aquiring more mouths to feed. The treaty was actually broken by DeValera in the 30s when he stopped the annuities payments; the Brits responded with sanctions that crippled the Irish economy.

The situation today is very similar,the cross border bodies are potrayed as a stepping stone to an united ireland by the provos and copperfastening partition whilst improving the economic stability of the northern state by the unionists.
The british are portrayed as an "honest broker" between the "two warring factions" and the southern government have the constituitional imperative to claim the 6 counties removed from the southern constituition.
Who thinks the Brits are "honest brokers"; nobody I know that's for sure

Someone made an incorrect suggestion that the alternative to the provo "peace strategy" is war, there are many other alternatives to armed struggle provided by republican groups and the reason why the provos suggest that its them or war is because their political strategy doesnt hold up to scrutiny.
So why have the RIRA decided to go for an escalation; there hasn't been much evidence of their alternative

If the provos could dismiss our strategy or policy then why did they lie about not receiving our submission or when they made a request for a meeting with us at the time of the policing debates when asked why they didnt respond to our submission they told outright lies to sunday newspapers saying we rejected there request?
So things didn't work out with Sinn Féin vis a vis your submission; how about making a submission to the Irish people, standing in elections and portraying a semblence of a strategy that doesn't involve trying to kill people?

I would appeal to any provo member or supporter to see what is going on in front of them with the acceptance of british police etc and if people are not prepared to get involved in republican separatism then be prepared to constantly question your leadership over the way forward because your been led by the nose folks and the only way you'll see it is by holding the cause and ireland in higher regard than the organisation.
I would appeal to all members of the 32CSM to use any influence ar their disposal to secure a stand down of the RIRA. Maybe then myself and the rest of the population might give them and their ideas some consideration.

[Jim]

Nobody knows what would have happened if Collins had lived.

True but what ive stated is pretty much the truth as ive read extensively about the subject and a relative of mine fought under O'Duffy's command in the tan war and and remained friendly with him for the rest of his life.

The Free State cabinet didn't stop him sending assassins to try and kill a Brit minister in london; after the treaty had been signed.

They didnt know that collins was involved as they thought it was the republicans and the killing of wilson was the main reason the rest of the freestate cabinet along with the british forced collins to act against the four court garrison.

the level of abandonment of northerners and demonisation of Republicans may not have occured.

Most of ira in the 6 counties went pro treaty as most of the population did also so apart from saving people from loyalist pogroms there is very little they could have done under the confines of the treaty.

For one thing, that creepin Jesus c*nt DeValera would not have been as significant if Collins had lived.


Ive more respect for collins but at the end of the day they both accepted british rule in this country and as such from a republican perspective are no different.

The staters never tried to get the boundary commission to work; they inherited an impoverished mess of a country and had no interest in aquiring more mouths to feed.

What really happened was that the loyalists with full backing of the british government sought territory from the 26 county area (east donegal i think) and not the other way around,this was embrassing for cumann na gael because they had put all their faith on the commission to work favourably for them and to lose land to the 6 county state (a state the vast majority of people felt was illegal) would play into the hands of devalera et al.
Subsequently the british settled a financial deal (that we should never have paid in the first place) and cosgrave and his people passed it off as a victory.

Who thinks the Brits are "honest brokers"; nobody I know that's for sure


Hume convinved adams et al that the british were neutral with the whole "no selfish strategic etc speech" and the british propaganda machine used this to keep the peace process going whilst giving nothing away on the constuitional front.
The way the british along with hume and adams have potrayed the british as not the imperialist foreign power excerting their control in ireland but a civil dispute between loyalists and republicans.

So why have the RIRA decided to go for an escalation; there hasn't been much evidence of their alternative


I never mentioned the RIRA and the fact you mentioned the RIRA is proving my point that the provos wont acknowledge a political alternative that isnt involved in armed struggle as their own political policy doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

So things didn't work out with Sinn Féin vis a vis your submission;

They told outright lies that it was lost in the post despite the fact that marion price and francie mackey were photographed dropping it into the provo offices in belfast ffs.
If the provos would acknowledge the submission and make a judgement then we would see if it worked out.

how about making a submission to the Irish people, standing in elections and portraying a semblence of a strategy that doesn't involve trying to kill people?


We dont stand in elections as we are not a political party nor are we involved in killing people,which you know already of course.

I would appeal to all members of the 32CSM to use any influence ar their disposal to secure a stand down of the RIRA.

We have no influence over the RIRA and vice versa as we are separate organisations.
Why would we want the RIRA to stand down anyway?

[wherenow]

Tá an thread ag dul sios an leithreas. Ba mhaith liom sf a cloisteal le do thoil.

This great thread is gong down the toilet. I want to hear sf opinions on issues, please ask them questions and let them answer. I'm going to put question on all the other forums. Convince me your party has the answer. Don't just attack SF.

[Jim]

Tá an thread ag dul sios an leithreas. Ba mhaith liom sf a cloisteal le do thoil.

This great thread is gong down the toilet. I want to hear sf opinions on issues, please ask them questions and let them answer. I'm going to put question on all the other forums. Convince me your party has the answer. Don't just attack SF.

Who was attacking the provos? If questioning their policy is attacking them it would explain why so many threats have been alledged these days.

[wherenow]

Ni thuigeann tu mé.

You didn't understand me and I apologise for being unclear. I would like this thread to not fall into the trap of so many others on this site, where theysimply become an argument and clarity is lost. Can we not take the chance to simply ask questions and receive answers. Let the answers speak for themselves rather that the point by pont this way and that we normally see. It would make a change and, be for me, less boring.

I agree there needs to be point and counter point, but on this site there is tons of room for this. Let's keep this thread different. Ask Sinn Féin for answers on issues and let their words be enough. Just this once. That is why I think Southarmaghceltic1888's thread is so good.

I have now added similar threads to RSF, IRSM and 32 CSM. If anybody wishes to express why their party is the best answer for Ireland then please tell me there.

[wherenow]

An bhfuil aon duine ó sf sa ról ceannaireachta do gluaiseacht ceardchummain?

Are there any sf activists in leadership positions in any working class organisations. I suppose I chiefly mean the Trade Union movement, but if there are others organisations you wish to mention then feel free to mention them.

[jester2207]

finally some buddy that can make some sense for the rest of us, Go raibgh mille maith agat Where are we now, curios thou...where are we now? more inportantly where are we going? do you think its positive or are we on the wrong road? (not Sinn Fien, Irish period)

[wherenow]

finally some buddy that can make some sense for the rest of us, Go raibgh mille maith agat Where are we now, curios thou...where are we now? more inportantly where are we going? do you think its positive or are we on the wrong road? (not Sinn Fien, Irish period)

Bhfeider tá ceat agat,beadh wherearewegoing nios fearr na wherearewenow.


Your probably right, wherearewegoing would be better than wherearewenow.

Mo thuairimse,

my opinion. I'm torn, many moons (1981/2)back I was in the IRSP for a very short time. Sold a few papers round a few pubs,did a few collections for republican socialist prisioners etc. Then the Special Branch stopped me a few times and got to know me, so like the whimp I am I backed off. Since then I've attended the odd commmemeration etc had a family, travelled a bit and got educated. Agus tá gaeilge agam anois.

I've watched the movement of sf throughout the 80's, 90's and into the 21st century. I was excited by the idea of the gun and the ballot box and the development of a clearer socialist agenda. By the 1990's I didn't see that the armed campaign was bringing us any further forward and I felt there was a need to reignite the politcal flame that sparked the uprising in the 6 counties back in 1969.

I thought that was what SF were doing. I thought the movement of SF into stormont etc would lead to the underlying tensions within the northern state being exposed and this would reignite the struggle north and south.

But now i don't know. I saw very little of the socialist agenda in the southern elections. SF should have fought harder on the issue of equality and fair taxation (yes I know they tried), but they looked silly over corporation tax. I appreciate the work many SF activists have done on the language and see it as the only large scale 32 county party that has gaeilge on the agenda, however I have concerns on that as well.

It worries me greatly that many people who have dedicated there lives to the struggle and SF have left the party and I am particularly worried by ex-prisioners moving on. I never belived I would see mcguiness and paisley smiling together constantly and it hurts, but I think that hurts his supporters as much, if not more than it does us.

On the other hand I feel that "normalisation" has brought many benefits. I feel the removal of the army from the border has renuited Ireland to a greater extent. Southerners feel less seperated now. It's great that the levels of fear in the north have dropped (yes i know it is still there, but army patrols kneeling behind lamposts as mothers walk by has gone). The Acht na gaeilge marches in Belfast were great. We marched in our thousands into what used to be the heartland of unionist resistance. (remember the banner on the town hall) and where was the opposition. Children and adults together pushing for Irish language rights, ****ing brilliant. Irish being spoken in stormont, who would have thought it.

But all that being said where are we going and what are the alternatives. That is what I came on this forum to find out. I have major concerns about SF but when I look for the alternative it is not always that obvious. The IRSM makes excellent socialist points and argues it case quite well, but when I ask 32csm and rsf what they stand for I am not being knocked down in the rush to answer me. I have posted threads on 32csm, rsf and IRSM forums asking their supporters to put the reasons why I should support them and look for yourself the answers are hardly inspiring confidence in them. (One fella said join and find out). The exception is perhaps the IRSM. I want to see positive reasons to follow an organisation or party. I went them to convince me I should join them to make this island a better place.

In short Jester I'm confused. I find it difficult to criticise people in the 32csm, rsf and irsm who live in the realities of the struggle everyday. How cand I sit in Dublin and say republicans in Belfast or Derry should not continue the armed struggle. A struggle I supported since the 70's and at the time it's leaders had no electoral mandate either. I do not live in the north and my own personal activism is in the gluaiseacht ghaeilge. (Irish language movement) My children attend irish language schools and i organised and set up a committee to establish a new irish school in my area.

Finally, i know there are massive holes in what I have written, but would ask not to be quoted on indiidual sentences and torn apart on each point. I have given my impressions of the situation and tried to show my confusion at this time.

[jester2207]

my question was ask in all honesty, its was not meant in any shape or form to meant as hostile and if i came off that way i apoligise, it wasnt my attempt, i have noticed a couple of your post and felt that i too had some similar concerns and thought mybee you knew more than me, alas mybee were in the same boat. i appricate your openeess to me Brathair.

I support Sinn Fien because it was the best party to represent how i felt as a displaced Irish man. i too have IRSP sympathies because i too am a socailist. i am a little older myself and have seen a few things my time as well and i too worry not for myself, but for my children. i believe in peace. i believe thats its are right to do any and everything we can to support that right and the fight for freedom. its not that i am a wimp or that i wouldnt be willing to fight for my country or my beliefs, i am and have. Still paying the reprocussions and will for the rest of my life in many aspects, but i owe to myself to try and insure that others do not have to suffer that same agonising pain, i owe to my children. and that is why i agree to the "cease fire" as it is. not saying that Sinn Fien is the only way or the perfect way, its just the best dang alternitive i see.

now personally i think that now or later we will have to address the police issue, now seems better than later, i thank my kucky shamrocks that it is not me that has to, because personally youll never see me talk to ANY peeler, Sasanach or Capitalist America, and while citizens should feel safe and free to call them for there protection, i personally dont need protection, and would never tout on any REPUBLICAN. and untill somebuddy CAN come forward with a more positive influance Finner is were ill be...and hopefuly one day i can come home free too:)

[wherenow]

Bráthair, ni cheap mé go raibh tu agreesive?

Bráthair, never took it as agressive. I took it as an honest question. Hope everything works out for you and the kids. Look forward to reading more of your posts, i'm sure I'll learn alot.
Go n-eiri an bothar leat Bráthair

[jester2207]

as a friend would say..."Cheers":)