is hardline socialism realy viable in todays world?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

first of all i am not defending or attacking socialism im just putting this out there.we all know socialism is a great idea on paper but can it realy work when implemented in todays world as of yet are there any realy succesful examples of socialism in action.is socialism just a pipe dream or has it ever realy worked? are there any examples of socialist countrys that have succesful econemys and low poverty levels for socialism to be succesful then surely it would have to prove itself a more succesful ideolegy than capitilism when implemented please refrain from PERSONAL ideas show proven examples of socialism working where possible thank you.

[broche]

it works supposedly in the scandinavian countries, but i'm not sure how socialist they would be considered

[Cael]

I think essentials should be taken completely out of the capitalist system, such as housing, health, food production, electricity and fuel, public transport/roads. These are the areas where the capitalists manage to attack the people with most disasterous effect.

[Takeshi]

I think essentials should be taken completely out of the capitalist system, such as housing, health, food production, electricity and fuel, public transport/roads. These are the areas where the capitalists manage to attack the people with most disasterous effect.

The soviets did such a great job of housing their people, and remember the footage of people waiting in line to buy food? I'm sure we'd all want to experience that. Government should stick to doing what it does best. Not a lot.

[Corkrebel]

Yes i believe, for ireland anyway, it can be a very good thing, or, it could be a very bad thing. We all know the ''traditional values'' of socialism that has been given to us from the genius writings of connelly. But it wont be easy to implement. I myself am truely looking foward to that day.
I dont like captalism, its corruption, exploitation, and major flaws. I think we need a strong hardline goverment to guide us into the new centuary and give ireland (a united ireland that is) a ''clean sheet''.

[Cael]

The soviets did such a great job of housing their people, and remember the footage of people waiting in line to buy food? I'm sure we'd all want to experience that. Government should stick to doing what it does best. Not a lot.


There were massive waiting lines to buy food all over capitalist Ireland this Christmas, and are you telling me that the housing situation in the 26 is any better than the worst days of the soviet Union? At least there, working people could get a roof over their heads without bankrupting themselves. In Eastern European countries like Romania, every young couple were provided with a home straight away. Now, in capitalist Romania, housing is well on the way to being as expensive as Ireland. Fuel, food and electricity is MORE expensive than Ireland - while the average wage is 30 euro a week.

[Cael]

Yes i believe, for ireland anyway, it can be a very good thing, or, it could be a very bad thing. We all know the ''traditional values'' of socialism that has been given to us from the genius writings of connelly. But it wont be easy to implement. I myself am truely looking foward to that day.
I dont like captalism, its corruption, exploitation, and major flaws. I think we need a strong hardline goverment to guide us into the new centuary and give ireland (a united ireland that is) a ''clean sheet''.


The big problem in Ireland is that everyone has someone to look down on. Even the beggers have a hierarchy among them. The thought of the begger just below you being on the same level as you is just too much for the Irish people to take at the present time. Meanwhile, the 1% of the population who own 20% of its wealth - or the 5% who own 40% of our wealth, continue lauging their way to the bank.

[quirk]

first of all i am not defending or attacking socialism im just putting this out there.we all know socialism is a great idea on paper but can it realy work when implemented in todays world as of yet are there any realy succesful examples of socialism in action.is socialism just a pipe dream or has it ever realy worked? are there any examples of socialist countrys that have succesful econemys and low poverty levels for socialism to be succesful then surely it would have to prove itself a more succesful ideolegy than capitilism when implemented please refrain from PERSONAL ideas show proven examples of socialism working where possible thank you.


During the period of socialism in China (1949-1976) life expectancy improved greatly, doubling from 32 to 65 years. (Penny Kane, The Second Billion (New York: Penguin, 1987), chapter 5.)


In 1949, when China’s revolution took place, only about 15 percent of China’s population could read and write. When Mao died in 1976, the literacy rate was about 80 percent. (Ruth Gamberg, Red and Expert (New York: Schocken, 1977), p. 41.)


The only government on earth that encouraged criticism and rebellion against people in power carrying out oppressive and elitist policies was China. (“Decision of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party Concerning the Great
Proletarian Cultural Revolution” (Adopted on August 8, 1966), in Important Documents on the Cultural Revolution in China (Peking:
Foreign Languages Press, 1970).)



The infant mortality rate in Shanghai in the early 1970’s was better than that of New York city. (Ruth and Victor Sidel, Serve the People: Observations on Medicine in the People’s Republic of China (Boston: Beacon,
1974), pp. 256-258.)


Since the overthrow of proletarian rule and the restoration of capitalism in 1976, the percentage of the Chinese population covered by public health programs has plummeted from 90 percent to 4 percent. (Based on government and World Health Organization data, cited in Eva Cheng, “China: Is Capitalist Restoration Inevitable,”
Links, no. 11 (January-April 1999), pp. 62-63. According to the World Health Organization, China now rates last among developing
countries in terms of equal access to medical care. See Elizabeth Rosenthal, “Without ‘Barefoot Doctors,’ China’s Rural Families
Suffer,” New York Times, March 14, 2001.)

[redflag32]

Show me how Capitalism is "working" in any country aswell.

[Cael]

Clearly, the banks should also be nationalised - or at least the ones used by normal people - as the sub prime crisis, along with much other evidence shows that the people are crazy allowing reckless and profit crazy capitalists to control such an important part of their economic lives (then making the people pay for the recklessnes greed and incompetance when the sh1t hit the fan.)

[Cael]

Of course, motor insurence should also be nationalised: as it is demanded by the state, therefore, it must be provided by the state.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

REDflag start your own thread for capitalism working.

[MartinP]

Clearly, the banks should also be nationalised - or at least the ones used by normal people - as the sub prime crisis, along with much other evidence shows that the people are crazy allowing reckless and profit crazy capitalists to control such an important part of their economic lives (then making the people pay for the recklessnes greed and incompetance when the sh1t hit the fan.)


Absolutely agree with you on that a chara. Banks should be nationalised and their function should be to provide a service to the people rather than trying to squeeze as much from the people.

Another question I'd have for anyone who wants to give their opinion on it is what do forum members think should be controlled by the state and to what extent should individuals be allowed to own property, businesses, etc.? Presumably it would be in the interests of the people for the state to control the larger companies at the very least, but at what point does an individual forfeit the ownership of something (e.g. small business, farm, etc.)?

[quirk]

I think that all private property should be abolished.

[MartinP]

I think that all private property should be abolished.


Convincing a nation of people who have something in them to own their own house, etc. would be impossible. I think in Ireland around 80% of people own their own property with the other 20% renting (in contintental Europe it's the other way around). Also, some people inherit farms of land and property which may have been in the family for centuries.

[Cael]

Convincing a nation of people who have something in them to own their own house, etc. would be impossible. I think in Ireland around 80% of people own their own property with the other 20% renting (in contintental Europe it's the other way around). Also, some people inherit farms of land and property which may have been in the family for centuries.


I wouldnt have anything against people owning their own homes, but speculation in housing should be banned straight away as an extremely anti-social behaviour. Owning farms is not such a problem really, as agriculture is now such a small part of the economy (but the EU grants system has descended into pure insanity, where millionaire farmers are getting the bulk of the money while those who really need grants get next to nothing.) The real problem with farm ownership now comes when land is needed for road building or building homes. In this case the state should issue a compulsary purchase order. The free state Kenny report probably got it about right when it said such land should be purchased at 25% above agricultural value.

Needless to say, the zoned land stock piled by the speculators and developers and general anti-social grabbers should be immediately confiscated by any Revolutionary Republican Government.

[Jerry_Corneilus]

Clearly, the banks should also be nationalised - or at least the ones used by normal people - as the sub prime crisis, along with much other evidence shows that the people are crazy allowing reckless and profit crazy capitalists to control such an important part of their economic lives (then making the people pay for the recklessnes greed and incompetance when the sh1t hit the fan.)



RSF don't support that, they support, "Irish banks ran by Irish people", check out their policy documents.

Nor are they socialists, they support distributionism.

[Comrade Ryan]

RSF don't support that, they support, "Irish banks ran by Irish people", check out their policy documents.

Nor are they socialists, they support distributionism.

God damn I thought this guy was gone too.

[FTA69]

He's an awful Brit, that having been said he makes intelligent contributions and participates in worthwhile debates. More than many Republican contributors do.

[Cael]

RSF don't support that, they support, "Irish banks ran by Irish people", check out their policy documents.

Nor are they socialists, they support distributionism.


I think you'll find that Sinn Féin do support a nationalised bank for housing loans.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

AH ryan your still babling on some things will never change