Sinn Fein deny and disown the IRA.

[TomClarke]

i was always of the belief that sinn fein upheld the struggle of the PIRA in last phase of the conflict. that whilst regretable that actions against the british state were a necessary part of the struggle.

and today the struggle could progress without the need to resort to armed conflict. but i never thought i would see a sinn fein elected rep deny and distance itself from the struggle of the PIRA in the last 40years.

but this is exactly what MLA Francie Molloy did last evening on the BBC's Hearts and Minds.

he said "our party never endorsed violence at any stage"

isnt it strange how history is rewritten, a little like orweel's 1984.

perhaps francie wasnt at 1981 sf ard fheis when danny morrison talked about ballot boxes and armalites.

god knows where franciewas at that time.... well then again, we could guess

[MarkyMark]

i was always of the belief that sinn fein upheld the struggle of the PIRA in last phase of the conflict. that whilst regretable that actions against the british state were a necessary part of the struggle.

and today the struggle could progress without the need to resort to armed conflict. but i never thought i would see a sinn fein elected rep deny and distance itself from the struggle of the PIRA in the last 40years.

but this is exactly what MLA Francie Molloy did last evening on the BBC's Hearts and Minds.

he said "our party never endorsed violence at any stage"

isnt it strange how history is rewritten, a little like orweel's 1984.

perhaps francie wasnt at 1981 sf ard fheis when danny morrison talked about ballot boxes and armalites.

god knows where franciewas at that time.... well then again, we could guess


I dont think he could have went on a british tv show and said "we supported our boys blowing your troops to bits". remember Sin Fein has always denied any links to the IRA. the same way the 32's deny any links to the Reals

[elle]

i was always of the belief that sinn fein upheld the struggle of the PIRA in last phase of the conflict. that whilst regretable that actions against the british state were a necessary part of the struggle.

and today the struggle could progress without the need to resort to armed conflict. but i never thought i would see a sinn fein elected rep deny and distance itself from the struggle of the PIRA in the last 40years.

but this is exactly what MLA Francie Molloy did last evening on the BBC's Hearts and Minds.

he said "our party never endorsed violence at any stage"

isnt it strange how history is rewritten, a little like orweel's 1984.

perhaps francie wasnt at 1981 sf ard fheis when danny morrison talked about ballot boxes and armalites.

god knows where franciewas at that time.... well then again, we could guess

:icon_eek:

[Jim]

the same way the 32's deny any links to the Reals

We deny any organisational link with the RIRA becauses we dont have any organsational link with the RIRA.

Our position as voted on at the recent agm.

That this AGM recognise the right of the Irish People to National Sovereignty and National Self Determination and that we also recognise the right of Óglaigh na hÉireann to bear arms in defence of that right.

[DublinRepublican]

I dont think he could have went on a british tv show and said "we supported our boys blowing your troops to bits". remember Sin Fein has always denied any links to the IRA. the same way the 32's deny any links to the Reals

Well then why did P sinn fein sign the GFA, the principles of non violence etc.
Sure if they denied links with the PIRA, then the PIRA wasnt bound by the things PSF signed?
I wonder how many motions at PSF ard fheis's before the gfa said they support the PIRAs armed struggle?'

Anyway molloy is a tout.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

"I dont think he could have went on a british tv show and said "we supported our boys blowing your troops to bits"."

Couldn't he? It's pretty much been done before.

"remember Sin Fein has always denied any links to the IRA."

That is, quite simply, bollocks.

Whenever I think that the Adams Faction can't sink any lower, they go and do something else to legitimise the occupation and delegitimise Irish Republicanism. Still, its appropriate enough that this came from that treacherous lizard Francie Molloy who was happy enough to admit that the Provos/Adams Faction have completely capitulated to the British.

[Hildy]

Correction: Gerry Adam's quote:

“There may have been misgivings or serious concerns about particular military operations, but there was no real dissent from armed struggle. It was taken for granted that that was the way of things. While I was of the view that no military solution was possible I also felt armed struggle was a necessary form of struggle and I defended this position without being dogmatic about it.”

Civil Rights face off between Sinn Fein and SDLP VIDEO - Hearts and Minds Program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeooei96C50&eurl=http://www.sluggerotoole.com/)

[Cael]

As a matter of fact its really true that the current PSF/Adamsites have nothing to do with PIRA before 1986. It would be true to say that PIRA before 1986 and CIRA after 1986 are one and the same organisation. It has been noted that almost all those who sat on the first PIRA Army Council in 1969, again took the Republican side in the 1986 split.

[Hildy]

I believe Francie Molloy would agree that it's always been SF's contention that they would not be at the threshold of peace if it weren't for the Activists and IRA volunteers of the past 40 years. SF is no way apologizing for their efforts. "In his recent keynote address at a special event organised in aid of the Tim Parry Johnathan Ball Foundation for Peace on 31, October 2007", Gerry Adams said:

On the one side there were nationalists and republicans who were denied basic human and civil rights, including the right to vote, access to housing and work. The north existed under a permanent state of emergency, with special laws, special courts and a range of state armed paramilitary organisations to implement its will. The civil rights campaign of the 1960s was an attempt to initiate reform. The demands were simple—the right to vote, an end to discrimination in jobs and housing, and the repeal of the special laws. On the other side was the unionist government, the unionist establishment and the British government.

Adams goes on to argue that

By the mid to late 1970s it was obvious that there was a military stalemate. The British could not defeat the IRA—the IRA could not militarily defeat the British.

And the violence continued with each side seeking to develop new strategies, new tactics, new and more deadly ways of killing each other.

Within republicanism, armed struggle was the dominating tendency. There was a belief that only the IRA could move the British government. There may have been misgivings or serious concerns about particular military operations but there was no real dissent from armed struggle. It was taken for granted that that was the way of things.

While I was of the view that no military solution was possible I also felt armed struggle was a necessary form of struggle and I defended this position without being dogmatic about it.

But how to break the impasse?

The Sinn Fein leadership carefully considered this and concluded that if the impasse was to be broken then republicans needed to go on a political offensive. And we realised very early on that this would require republicans taking initiatives. At its core it would require Sinn Féin constructing a viable political alternative to armed struggle which could deliver republican goals.

In a letter I wrote in the early 1980s to Catholic Bishop Cahal Daly, who was a vocal opponent of republicans I said: ‘Those republicans who engage in armed struggle, or who defend the legitimacy of armed struggle in pursuance of Irish independence, do so, not through any fixation with physical force, but through a necessity. Those who voice a moral condemnation of this tactic have a responsibility to spell out an alternative course by which Irish independence can be secured. I for one would be pleased to consider such an alternative.’

I have to say it became clear very quickly to me and to others in our leadership that if we were to wait on others providing the alternative it would never happen. They were locked in a mindset.


Exploring different routes to peace - Gerry Adams (http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/21489)

[mac_talla]

Correction: Gerry Adam's quote:

“There may have been misgivings or serious concerns about particular military operations, but there was no real dissent from armed struggle. It was taken for granted that that was the way of things. While I was of the view that no military solution was possible I also felt armed struggle was a necessary form of struggle and I defended this position without being dogmatic about it.”

Civil Rights face off between Sinn Fein and SDLP VIDEO - Hearts and Minds Program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeooei96C50&eurl=http://www.sluggerotoole.com/)

:icon_eek: Fan noiméad! Is difríocht an-mhor í sin!

Wait a minute! That is a huge difference! Mr. Clarke, how do you read "our party never endorsed violence at any stage" from the above statement?

[Hildy]

:icon_eek: Fan noiméad! Is difríocht an-mhor í sin!

Wait a minute! That is a huge difference! Mr. Clarke, how do you read "our party never endorsed violence at any stage" from the above statement?

He can't mac_talla, that's why I posted the exact quote and the Video.

[MarkyMark]

hahah wow, talk about lying!!!!

shows the despicable lenghts some people will go to to discredit Sinn Fein

[Cael]

I believe Francie Molloy would agree that it's always been SF's contention that they would not be at the threshold of peace if it weren't for the Activists and IRA volunteers of the past 40 years. SF is no way apologizing for their efforts. "In his recent keynote address at a special event organised in aid of the Tim Parry Johnathan Ball Foundation for Peace on 31, October 2007", Gerry Adams said:


Gerry broke the impass alright - by surrendering the people's weapons and taking the Queen's shilling.

[Cael]

hahah wow, talk about lying!!!!

shows the despicable lenghts some people will go to to discredit Sinn Fein


Nobody has to go to any lengths - you do it so expertly all by yourselves.

[Newry Republican]

I dont think he could have went on a british tv show and said "we supported our boys blowing your troops to bits".

If he had any balls he would have.

Sure didnt SDLP Scumbag Eddie OGrady publicly congratulate the RUC for assasinating unarmed VOL Colum Marks.

[mac_talla]

I posted before I looked at the video. Mr. Malloy did indeed say "our party never endorsed violence at any stage". My apologies to Mr. Clark for insinuating he quoted in error.

That being said, I certainly do not think one can then, logically, go on to say a sinn fein elected rep denied and distanced itself from the struggle of the PIRA in the last 40years.

What I saw, were two politicians vying for the high ground and a somewhat biased host. Granted, I have a certain political bias towards Sinn Fein, but I felt what Mr. Malloy was aiming for (but was cut off before he could finish) was that proactive violence was never endorsed.

Truth is, politicians, regardless of flavour, always leave me with a funny taste in my mouth. (and NO ONE make a Monica referrence...I am old enough to be all yall's granny! :icon_laugh:)

[Mellows1922]

Sure if they denied links with the PIRA, then the PIRA wasnt bound by the things PSF signed?

The IRA were not bound by the GFA. Any actions undertaken by the IRA were acts of good faith to progress the process.

I wonder how many motions at PSF ard fheis's before the gfa said they support the PIRAs armed struggle?'

Plenty.

Anyway molloy is a tout.

Either substantiate that or retract it. There are no allegations of this nature allowed unless you can provide credible evidence.

[robertemmett]

The IRA were not bound by the GFA. Any actions undertaken by the IRA were acts of good faith to progress the process.



Plenty.



Either substantiate that or retract it. There are no allegations of this nature allowed unless you can provide credible evidence.



http://cryptome.org/francie-molloy.htm

[Hildy]

for clarification, this is a statement from Gerry Adams.

“There may have been misgivings or serious concerns about particular military operations, but there was no real dissent from armed struggle. It was taken for granted that that was the way of things. While I was of the view that no military solution was possible I also felt armed struggle was a necessary form of struggle and I defended this position without being dogmatic about it.”

I missed that too, sorry Clarke. I took this off another website and didn't read it very well. My apologies. However the fact is, whether he said that or not, you can't make such a broad statement out of one sentence like that, to say that SF deny and disown the IRA, because that is blatantly NOT true. He said many other things contrary to that. In fact, everyone realizes that if it wasn't for the IRA's actions, SF would not be on the political path they are on right now. So Molloy's one sentence statement means nothing. The voice of SF is Gerry Adams and his statements are strong and clear! I still think it was a flimsly way to discredit SF through one statement made by Molloy.

[robertemmett]

I missed that too, sorry Clarke. I took this off another website and didn't read it very well. My apologies. However the fact is, whether he said that or not, you can't make such a broad statement out of one sentence like that, to say that SF deny and disown the IRA, because that is blatantly NOT true. He said many other things contrary to that. In fact, everyone realizes that if it wasn't for the IRA's actions, SF would not be on the political path they are on right now. So Molloy's one sentence statement means nothing. The voice of SF is Gerry Adams and his statements are strong and clear! I still think it was a flimsly way to discredit SF through one statement made by Molloy.


jesus, now gerry is the voice of SF.

it doesnt matter what any other psf MLA says, if they seem to contradict Gerdolf, they are wrong. as only gerdolf's voice is the true voice.

all will submit to his will!!!:whip:

[Hildy]

Hi robert! Of course he is, he has been for such a long time. Where have you been? Hibernating somewhere? LOL, he is the lead voice at least right now, as you well know. So who is the lead voice of your party, robert? :D

[scarface]

The IRA were not bound by the GFA. Any actions undertaken by the IRA were acts of good faith to progress the process

give people on the forum a bit more credit than that Adams must of been a very persuasive man to convince the PIRA considering he was never a member:icon_laugh:

[robertemmett]

hi robert! Of course he is, he has been for such a long time. Where have you been? Hibernating somewhere? LOL, he is the lead voice at least right now, as you well know. So who is the lead voice of your party, robert?


i am!!!
all bow before me.
i will have NO dissent!

[Mellows1922]

http://cryptome.org/francie-molloy.htm

As I said, substantiate it.

[Mellows1922]

give people on the forum a bit more credit than that Adams must of been a very persuasive man to convince the PIRA considering he was never a member:icon_laugh:

scarface, it's a fact. Please show me where the IRA were bound by the GFA. They supported the process but were in no way bound by it.

[robertemmett]

As I said, substantiate it.

newspaper stories were good enough material for psfers last week, to get stuck into the rIRA.

[Mellows1922]

newspaper stories were good enough material for psfers last week, to get stuck into the rIRA.

Was I one of them ?

[robertemmett]

Was I one of them ?

i dont know, but i suspose you were not, or you wouldnt be pointing it out. but plenty of your fellow party supporters were though.

[Hildy]

newspaper stories were good enough material for psfers last week, to get stuck into the rIRA.

well robert, do you even have that? I mean for godsake, if we can't even use the Newspapers as a source for substantiation, what is left to use! We have to link to something!

[DFCRFB]

i dont know, but i suspose you were not, or you wouldnt be pointing it out. but plenty of your fellow party supporters were though.

:icon_lol: do you blame us? its open season all year round for all the anti SFers on here!

oh and i wasnt one of them either. ;)

[Hildy]

:icon_lol: do you blame us? its open season all year round for all the anti SFers on here!

oh and i wasnt one of them either. ;)

We know DFCRFB! Yer a good man! :) But I still owe you!:biggrin:

[robertemmett]

well robert, do you even have that? I mean for godsake, if we can't even use the Newspapers as a source for substantiation, what is left to use! We have to link to something!


thanks hildy, you make my point for me

[VzN]

For me, the armed stuggle was and is justfied and as long as the Brits are in Ireland it shall always be.