Editor of Irish News renounces 32CSM Claims

[Hildy]

This is a series of e-mails between myself the the Editor of the Irish News, Noel Doran. As you can see by the e-mails below, he has given his permission for me to post this on the board. It seems he is saying that nothing actually occurred between 32CSM's communication and the Irish News, as nothing was followed up on by Mr. Martin on January 18, 2008. So can someone explain why this is so, AND why there was no follow-up on 32CSM's part? Seems strange to me that if they were invited to submit a statement and then did not follow-up, that it would be dropping the ball, so to speak!

I tried finding the article on their website, but couldn't locate, so I have asked him to send me a link. I haven't received one as of yet.

Read from the bottom up in order to understand it chronologically.



RE: your message‏
From: Noel Doran (n.doran@irishnews.com)
Sent: Tue 1/29/08 7:28 AM
To: Hildy Donovan (hildydonovan@hotmail.com)

Hi Hildy,

I did not regard my message to you as private, so you can post it elsewhere if you wish. We covered the picket in a short report in yesterday's paper which also mentioned that we had no record of receiving a letter offered for publication by the 32CSM.

Noel Doran.



At 02:23 29/01/2008, you wrote:

Thank you Mr. Doran, I really appreciate your response back to me. Do you mind if I post your response on the forum? It illustrates to me that what the 32CSM supporters are posting on our website, is quite different than what is actually happening, according to your explanation. It is puzzling, but indicates that there is a lack of follow-up communication on their part and they are trying to make it 'seem' as if the Irish News is not being cooperative, which is misleading and is not the case at all.

Thank you again, and I await your reply.

Regards, Hildy Donovan





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:42:27 +0000

To: hildydonovan@hotmail.com

From: n.doran@irishnews.com

Subject: your message


Hi Hildy,


We received an email from a Mr Martin of the 32CSM on January 18, seeking a right of reply to recent stories in the Irish News, and we told him in a return email that any letter submitted would be considered in the normal way. We have no record of receiving any response from him.


We then received a statement from the 32CSM on January 23, claiming that we were refusing to allow it any space in the paper. We replied by pointing that we had not received any letter offered for publication on behalf of the 32CSM, but again we have heard nothing in reply.


A number of 32CSM members then staged a picket outside the Irish News on Saturday afternoon (January 26) , at a time when our office is always closed.


I hope this clarifies matters for you, but I remain a little puzzled by the sequence of events.


Noel Doran,

Editor,

The Irish News.








At 21:03 26/01/2008, you wrote:

The following statement was posted to our website. In a follow-up to my original e-mail to all of you at the Irish News, I would like to know what your response is to the protest that was held today in front of your offices. I've attached a picture of the protest. I would really like to know why you are not responding to such incriminating allegations, or if you are going to respond publically. It would put your readership base at ease knowing you publically denounce these allegations. Thank you in advance for any response you may give me.



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From: hildydonovan@hotmail.com
To: j.braniff@irishnews.com; a.morris@irishnews.com; j.lee@irishnews.com; n.doran@irishnews.com
Subject: RE: Irish Republican Net - Discussion on Allison Morris
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:42:07 -0700



Protest against criminalisation Saturday 26th January

The 32 County Sovereignty Movement urge all republicans to support a protest against criminalisation planned for Saturday 26th January at the offices of The Irish News 113-117 Donegal Street Belfast at 3pm.

A dangerous new trend has developed in recent weeks whereby some elements within the media have attempted to criminalise those republicans who have rejected the British administration in Stormont. The Irish News has been particularly active in this new role as MI5 mouthpieces rather than an impartial representative of nationalist opinion. The editorial team in this once credible paper have taken to their new role with great relish to the point of publishing outlandish stories supposedly taken from unnamed and unsubstantiated ‘sources’ and then refusing Irish Republican Separatists any print space in order to counter these ludicrous creations.


The 32 County Sovereignty Movement believe that it is imperative that the actions of The Irish News do not go unchallenged as it is our opinion that such attempts at criminalisation are a pre cursor to a new crackdown on anti agreement republicanism.

This crackdown has been called for by the main nationalist parties through the pages of this paper and this line has been faithfully parroted by Irish News editorials.

As it is clear that no republican in Ireland can receive a fair trial and that the British intelligence services and their agents are up to their necks in attempting to frame republican separatists we would ask the Irish News how exactly republicans should be dealt with?

The Irish News has put itself firmly on the side of the British political administration in Ireland, not alone by attempting to recruit young nationalists in to the British army and police through their situations vacant pages but also by putting themselves and some of their staff at the disposal of the British security services.

The Irish News must be in a position to prove the veracity of their stories and we call on them to do so. We also call on them to cease their practise of adopting a partisan political position in defence of the British administration in Ireland and to give republican separatism a right to reply to criminalisation attempts emanating from MI5.

These are issues which impact upon all republicans not just those within the 32 County Sovereignty Movement as it is not just our organisations that are being criminalised but the whole republican separatist position.

Fight criminalisation
Fight censorship

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7990






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From: hildydonovan@hotmail.com
To: j.braniff@irishnews.com; a.morris@irishnews.com; j.lee@irishnews.com; n.doran@irishnews.com
Subject: Irish Republican Net - Discussion on Allison Morris
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:18:13 -0700

At 03:18 PM 1/17/2008, you wrote:

Hello, I am a member of the above referenced Irish Republican internet forum ( http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/index.php). It is quite large and has over 1,000 members. It is Republican based website forum and has a variety of supporters from different political affiliations such as Sinn Fein, 32CSM, RSF, etc. I am an active debator over there and my member name is Hildy.

I have become concerned with a couple of threads that have been posted, implying that the recent articles printed in the Irish News are all lies and that Allison Morris and the Irish News are in Sinn Fein's pocket. I would really like you comment on this issue, especially Ms. Morris if she feels it is important enough to comment.

Now this forum is run by non-biased, well respected Republican activists and usually there are well received debates going on. Now they are allegding that the Irish News is publishing unsubstantiated facts without naming reputable sources behind these damaging allegations. I'm hoping someone will sign on and respond. Or write an editorial comment on it and e-mail me with the link so I can post it on the forum.

Thank you so much for any consideration you may give my request, and I appreciate all your help in this matter.

Regards,

Hildy Donovan

[MarkyMark]

not looking good for the 32s

I wonder what their response will be to this

[MarkyMark]

also well done Hildy, nice work ;)

[quirk]

The statement was given to Allison morris on the day which she published her story. It is the very same statement that was put up on the internet. Allison Morris said that she would put it in the next days Irish News yet this did not happen.

Do you know Doran personally Hildy as he didn't reply to an email from myself for some reason?

[quirk]

not looking good for the 32s

I wonder what their response will be to this

Ho is it not looking bad. The Irish News told lies to begin with and are continuing to tell lies. When Morris said she would post our reply we believe she did intend to yet the next days Irish News did not carry it but rather an editorial repeating the previous allegations. Clearly the editor over ruled Allison Morris.

[Hildy]

Thanks MarkyMark! I just want to know that what is being published, and what is being said to the contrary about the Irish News on this forum, is indeed fact, and not some perfunctory attempt at glossing over the obvious misrepresentations by any one group.

quirk, anyone can write to Mr. Doran, or any of the journalists, and reporters at the Irish News.

Here is the response I received from Ms. Morris

Re: Irish Republican Net - Discussion on Allison Morris‏
From: Allison Morris (a.morris@irishnews.com)
Sent: Thu 1/17/08 9:09 AM
To: Hildy Donovan (hildydonovan@hotmail.com)


Thanks you for your email, I have already been made aware of the posts and do not wish to respond to them.

While I fully encourage political debate - indeed holding the press to account is an essential part of any democracy - I do object to being called a "fxcking tramp" by one 32 csm poster, a sexually derogatory remark and one that wouldn't be directed at a male counterpart.

My by-line is always on my work it is subject to the same checks as any other journalist working for the Irish News. The personal tone of some of the posts are sexist and distasteful and I feel reflect very poorly on the authors but I suppose it's a modern day peril of the job.

Thanks again but as I've said from experience it's better not to respond to this type of personal attack

Allison Morris

[quirk]

Thanks MarkyMark! I just want to know that what is being published, and what is being said to the contrary about the Irish News on this forum, is indeed fact, and not some perfunctory attempt at glossing over the obvious misrepresentations by any one group.

quirk, anyone can write to Mr. Doran, or any of the journalists, and reporters at the Irish News.

Here is the response I received from Ms. Morris

Re: Irish Republican Net - Discussion on Allison Morris‏
From: Allison Morris (a.morris@irishnews.com)
Sent: Thu 1/17/08 9:09 AM
To: Hildy Donovan (hildydonovan@hotmail.com)


Thanks you for your email, I have already been made aware of the posts and do not wish to respond to them.

While I fully encourage political debate - indeed holding the press to account is an essential part of any democracy - I do object to being called a "fxcking tramp" by one 32 csm poster, a sexually derogatory remark and one that wouldn't be directed at a male counterpart.

My by-line is always on my work it is subject to the same checks as any other journalist working for the Irish News. The personal tone of some of the posts are sexist and distasteful and I feel reflect very poorly on the authors but I suppose it's a modern day peril of the job.

Thanks again but as I've said from experience it's better not to respond to this type of personal attack

Allison Morris

Of course Allison Morris can't address the issue and uses an anonymous poster on the internet as her excuse. Her story was gutter journalism which can have real world repercussions. She says she wont respond to this kind of attack but why not respond to the genuine concerns. Her and doran have lost alot of credibility and to be honest I would never believe anything which comes out of their mouths.

Also I am perfectly aware that anyone can write to them. I just wondered why they reply to you and not to me.

[quirk]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=pq0yg7PcVBk

[Hildy]

I don't know why they didn't respond back to you quirk, a chara. They responded to my initial e-mail the next day. My question is why Mr. Martin didn't respond back to Mr. Doran? Wouldn't that have been the most opportune time, when he was in direct contact with Mr. Doran. He is the editor, and he invited more communication from Mr. Martin, so why didn't Mr. Martin take full advantage? That is the important question here, IMO.

We are expected to believe that the Irish News is unbelievable and publishing gossip, hearsay, unsubstantiated allegations, then when Mr. Martin had the opportunity to display them, i.e., the Irish News as uncredible, he drops the ball. I don't get it. If it was that important to prove them out as liars, what good did the protest do, without something substantial. your case is as weak as the Irish News at this point.

Another question I have, is does a group have to get a permit to stage a picket, or protest in a City Center, or Business district, i.e., where the Irish News is located?

[quirk]

He did reply. He gave Allison Morris a verbal statement on the day of the initial story. She said it would be published and it wasn't. He then wrote to Doran and sent the written statement which we released. Again the Irish news didnt respond. In a personal email I sent to Doran I asked him why he refused to carry the 32CSM statement. He didn't respond to me.

As for being expected to believe the Irish news is publishing gossip. That's what almost every single person does believe in relation to this story. It is lies. No republicans were interviewed about it. The republican response wasn't carried.

As for needing a permit I don't kno> what difference does it make anyway?

[quirk]

How is our case weak Hildy? For some reason you are one of the very few people who even believed this story and that includes the vast majority of PSF supporters and members. I think the reason doran and morris replied to you is because you agree with them. They wont reply to those who disagree.

[Hildy]

I was just curious as to why the protest was scheduled for a day when the Irish News was closed. I realize that most people cannot take time out of their work day to stage a picket or protest. However, most pickets and protests are most valuable when the public or workers have to pass through them to get to the intended establishment. It just makes more of an impact.

So my question is what good did the protest really do, when no one was there? Hence, my question regarding the need for a permit to stage a protest. Some city ordinances do not allow protests or pickets without one, or they designate such activities on the weekend and I thought that might be why you staged it on Saturday when the Irish News is normally closed. Just curious!

[MarkyMark]

Didnt realise you guys had in fact given her a statement Quirk. surely someone should make this clear to Mr.Doran

[quirk]

It was staged on a saturday as people work during the week. Many people passed during the protest both on foot and in cars. The point of the protest was to hi light the criminalisation agenda and I think it was quite successful in doing so. It also shows that we are not prepared to sit back and just accept the lies.

[quirk]

Didnt realise you guys had in fact given her a statement Quirk. surely someone should make this clear to Mr.Doran

It was a verbal statement initially which she said would be carried and I am sure Doran knows this.

[Hildy]

You expect to take a verbal statement and trust someone, who you accuse as being liars and manipulators of the truth. And you are calling them out for these reasons, and yet trust them to print the statement????:confused:

What's wrong with this picture?

[quirk]

You expect to take a verbal statement and trust someone, who you accuse as being liars and manipulators of the truth. And you are calling them out for these reasons, and yet trust them to print the statement????:confused:

What's wrong with this picture?

What are we supposed to do. If we give them a verbal statement and they refuse to carry it what do you suggest we do Hildy? Should we have refused to give the verbal statement when she asked for it?

There is nothing wrong with the above picture and it is how statements are given on occasion by all political parties. You however seem determined to find something wrong to blame the 32CSM for.

[Hildy]

Here is a link to the article, it takes a while to download as its in .pdf format


From: Noel Doran (n.doran@irishnews.com)
Sent: Tue 1/29/08 8:59 AM
To: Hildy Donovan (hildydonovan@hotmail.com)

Hi Hildy, This is a PDF link, which I hope you can access. The short piece was carried on p20 of our January 28 edition. Noel Doran.

http://www.irishnews.com/pdfs/2008/01/28/A20P1.pdf

Picket outside
paper’s offices

A SMALL group of members of
the 32 County Sovereignty
Movement staged a short
picket outside the offices of
The Irish News on Saturday
afternoon. The protesters
claimed in a statement that
they had been denied space in
the paper. However, a
spokesman for The Irish News
said the paper had no record of
receiving a letter offered for
publication in the name of the
group so far this year and that
any contribution submitted
would be considered in the
normal way.

[MarkyMark]

where is the original Morris thread?

[Hildy]

MarkyMark, it should be here:

Groundless tripe from the Irish News

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7668



and here is the piece this thread was referring to:



Drug-smuggling loyalist gang armed republican dissidents

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7694

[Hildy]

quirk, mo chara......I'm not saying you weren't given a verbal by someone to publish the 32CSM statement. I'm only saying that the ball was dropped somehow, because what Mr. Doran plainly said in his e-mail to me was that he was contacted by a Mr. Martin and never heard back from him. Perhaps Ms. Morris handed everything over to Mr. Doran and there lies the confusion. I don't know. All I know is each of the parties statements aren't adding up, and if I was in charge of an organization that needed to dispell the rumour that I was being called uncredible and a liar, I certainly would get it sorted immediately!

This didn't happen here, why?

[quirk]

How could this be sorted? The Irish News are being untruthful as they have been from the beginning. What in your opinion could we possibly do Hildy to force them to tell the truth?

[MarkyMark]

MarkyMark, it should be here:

Groundless tripe from the Irish News

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7668



and here is the piece this thread was referring to:



Drug-smuggling loyalist gang armed republican dissidents

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7694


Cheers Hildy

[ardonian]

Hildy you had yourself manipulated to suit there agenda and more fool you.There was a verbal statment given as comrade quirk has already said and ex amounts of postage mail and email sent to them including the given statement.If your $F counterpart wants to say diffrent thats on her back.

[ardonian]

And another thing the Irish news was open there doors might be closed but there office staff are at work inside.

[Hildy]

Hildy you had yourself manipulated to suit there agenda and more fool you.There was a verbal statment given as comrade quirk has already said and ex amounts of postage mail and email sent to them including the given statement.If your counterpart wants to say diffrent thats on her back.

ardonian, mo chara.....I don't believe I was manipulated at all. Mr. Doran did not need to respond to my e-mail, especially if he had something to hide. Nor did Ms. Morris. As a matter of fact, I felt that they both were very forthcoming. And I can see why Ms. Morris did not want to respond to the tacky slurs that she was subjected to on this forum. We should be above those types of insulting comments. And I also do not see anywhere on their publication does it say they are affiliated with SF or any other party. I personally think certain members on this forum are being rather harsh in their judgment of the Irish News. But I also realize they are sensitive to the negative reporting that has been going on. However, SF has had to deal with kind of negativity on a consistent basis, so they just need to toughen up and keep the communication open in order to dispell any inconsistencies of the facts!

I would think now is the time contact them, the opportunity is there! You should be on it! I will even relay a message to Mr. Doran for them, if they would like. Let me know, he's gotten back to me promptly on every e-mail. And I'm not trying to be facetious or sound important. It's just that I would like to know the truth since such a big deal has been made of this. I would also like to know that what is being printed is the truth or not.

[grainne]

Thank you Mr. Doran, I really appreciate your response back to me. Do you mind if I post your response on the forum? It illustrates to me that what the 32CSM supporters are posting on our website, is quite different than what is actually happening, according to your explanation. It is puzzling, but indicates that there is a lack of follow-up communication on their part and they are trying to make it 'seem' as if the Irish News is not being cooperative, which is misleading and is not the case at all.

Hildy can i just ask what you ment by OUR website?

[East Tyrone]

What's the big deal anyway? I'm sure the Irish News are hardly bothered by a handfull of people protesting when there may, or may not, have been a handfull of people in their offices.

[Hildy]

LOL, oh grainne, you like to play 'sherlock holmes' don't ye!:icon_lol: When referring to the website, our as in the 'members' website, inclusive of all party's. How should I've said it? 'My' website, that I am a member of, or what is politically correct in your estimation, pray tell?

You would make a great detective though! Inquiring minds want to know! http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s6/hildydonovan/Emoticons/detective.gif

[grainne]

LOL, oh grainne, you like to play 'sherlock holmes' don't ye!:icon_lol: When referring to the website, our as in the 'members' website, inclusive of all party's. How should I've said it? 'My' website, that I am a member of, or what is politically correct in your estimation, pray tell?

You would make a great detective though! Inquiring minds want to know! http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s6/hildydonovan/Emoticons/detective.gif

Well hildy,i think i will just go along with what ive been told on this one.
Im not picking at ur every word.

I think everybody has already caught on to the fact that this is a SF run
website,ur choice of words in ur e-mails just reinforces the obvious

[quirk]

ardonian, mo chara.....I don't believe I was manipulated at all. Mr. Doran did not need to respond to my e-mail, especially if he had something to hide. Nor did Ms. Morris. As a matter of fact, I felt that they both were very forthcoming. And I can see why Ms. Morris did not want to respond to the tacky slurs that she was subjected to on this forum. We should be above those types of insulting comments. And I also do not see anywhere on their publication does it say they are affiliated with SF or any other party. I personally think certain members on this forum are being rather harsh in their judgment of the Irish News. But I also realize they are sensitive to the negative reporting that has been going on. However, SF has had to deal with kind of negativity on a consistent basis, so they just need to toughen up and keep the communication open in order to dispell any inconsistencies of the facts!

I would think now is the time contact them, the opportunity is there! You should be on it! I will even relay a message to Mr. Doran for them, if they would like. Let me know, he's gotten back to me promptly on every e-mail. And I'm not trying to be facetious or sound important. It's just that I would like to know the truth since such a big deal has been made of this. I would also like to know that what is being printed is the truth or not.

They were forthcoming to you because you agreed with them. Allison Morris doesn't have to reply to such comments but she is clearly using this so as not to address the issues. The initial story was very bad journalism. Why do you think people are being harsh? Is it because they are criticising the paper for printing lies? Is it for criticising them for not interviewing any members of the republican movement before printing such a story? Is it for criticising them for refusing to carry the reply? Also there is a big difference between negative reporting and what is clearly an agenda of criminalising republicans. This agenda is leading in a particular agenda and will have real life repercussions.

We will continue to send press releases to the Irish News and despite what Doran has told you they received a verbal statement then the next day the written statement which was also published in other sources including this board. You yourself sent him the statement in your email so he cant be pretending he didn't see it.

You continue to criticise the 32CSM's response so what do you think we could do different? How do you propose we make them tell the truth?

[Hildy]

Well hildy,i think i will just go along with what ive been told on this one.
Im not picking at ur every word.

I think everybody has already caught on to the fact that this is a SF run
website,ur choice of words in ur e-mails just reinforces the obvious

well grainne, I hate to point out the obvious.....but IF that were true, how does that pertain to me? That is an issue you need to take up with the Ownership of this site and not involve me. I have never been lead to believe it is a SF Forum. As a matter of fact their logo reads, Catholic, Protestant & Dissenter unite.......

I have always felt the ownership of this website has done their best to remain impartial. And believe me, I know when I say this is an impartial forum compared to the UTR which is so heavily censored and bias-laden that you have to lean to one side to log in. So you don't know how great this forum is until you go on that one or others. That is my personal opinion. There may be more SF supporters in number of members, I don't know, but then we are all trying to get along and exchange ideas at least. That is the point, is it not? And I don't know what my e-mails have to do with this. I wrote them as a member of this forum, and I happen to be a SF supporter, so what's wrong with that? I don't represent this forum, I said so in my e-mails, that I was a member. So grainne, no more third degree.....if you have anymore questions like that you need to talk with Daithi or the Admin.

Cheers, Hildy:)

[East Tyrone]

Quirk, maybe the Irish News is, and has been, telling the truth. The vast majority of Irish public opinion would seem to think so.

[quirk]

Quirk, maybe the Irish News is, and has been, telling the truth. The vast majority of Irish public opinion would seem to think so.

No they wouldn't. Next to no one believed the story in question. Even on this board there only seem to be about 3 people who believed it.

[Jim]

Im quite sure everything has been done by us in regard to the Irish News as the people responsible for dealing with the media have done so quite effectively.

However, SF has had to deal with kind of negativity on a consistent basis,

Thats what it all comes down to at the end of the day,you were particularly irked at the fact that your people were getting quite a lot more negative treatment in the media and you decided to address that by continually referring to these unsourced and unfounded allegations,regardless what is said to you by us,members of other organisations and even some fair minded shinners.Isnt that correct?

[East Tyrone]

As numerous polls on this board suggest, it is hardly reflective of Irish public opinion as it constitutes a specific interest group. Most ordinary people, whom I have spoken to, would be in agreement with the Irish News on this one.

[quirk]

As numerous polls on this board suggest, it is hardly reflective of Irish public opinion as it constitutes a specific interest group. Most ordinary people, whom I have spoken to, would be in agreement with the Irish News on this one.

Well I have spoken to no one who actually believes the story that the RIRA used loyalists and drug dealers to import weapons. Also I think republicans would be better situated to make a judgement on such allegations.

[East Tyrone]

I'm not going to go into what most people, that I know, think of the RIRA and what they are capable of.

[grainne]

well grainne, I hate to point out the obvious.....but IF that were true, how does that pertain to me? That is an issue you need to take up with the Ownership of this site and not involve me. I have never been lead to believe it is a SF Forum. As a matter of fact their logo reads, Catholic, Protestant & Dissenter unite.......

I have always felt the ownership of this website has done their best to remain impartial. And believe me, I know when I say this is an impartial forum compared to the UTR which is so heavily censored and bias-laden that you have to lean to one side to log in. So you don't know how great this forum is until you go on that one or others. That is my personal opinion. There may be more SF supporters in number of members, I don't know, but then we are all trying to get along and exchange ideas at least. That is the point, is it not? And I don't know what my e-mails have to do with this. I wrote them as a member of this forum, and I happen to be a SF supporter, so what's wrong with that? I don't represent this forum, I said so in my e-mails, that I was a member. So grainne, no more third degree.....if you have anymore questions like that you need to talk with Daithi or the Admin.

Cheers, Hildy:)

Hildy for starters fair play to you for getting intouch with the irish news
and asking the questions.i respect you for that.well done:eusa_clap:

I have had this out with the owner already,admin to.i do not wish to go down that road again.no point.i think that the forum is a good idea,but not all ideas are good.I know their is mods from other partys and its not all one sided that way.and i know it says Catholic, Protestant & Dissenter unite,but thats just SF speak no matter wat way you try and dress it up.

[Hildy]

They were forthcoming to you because you agreed with them. Allison Morris doesn't have to reply to such comments but she is clearly using this so as not to address the issues. The initial story was very bad journalism. Why do you think people are being harsh? Is it because they are criticising the paper for printing lies? Is it for criticising them for not interviewing any members of the republican movement before printing such a story? Is it for criticising them for refusing to carry the reply? Also there is a big difference between negative reporting and what is clearly an agenda of criminalising republicans. This agenda is leading in a particular agenda and will have real life repercussions.

We will continue to send press releases to the Irish News and despite what Doran has told you they received a verbal statement then the next day the written statement which was also published in other sources including this board. You yourself sent him the statement in your email so he cant be pretending he didn't see it.

You continue to criticise the 32CSM's response so what do you think we could do different? How do you propose we make them tell the truth?


You know what quirk, the bottom line is this! I would like to be able to post any goddamn article I want to post, if it stirs debate! I am sick of seeing only the crap articles that only deal with the 'chuckle brothers' and the selling out of the republicans, and stormont castle, and the 'tom and gerry' show and all the rest of that garbage you anti-shinners like to pile high on Sinn Fein. Those articles only come from reliable sources evidently??? So they are ok to post, as long as it doesn't reflect poorly or negatively on the highly esteemed 32CSM or RSF. Well that doesn't wash with me, that's why I wanted to get to the bottom of this matter and have it be settled one way or another.

I'm sick of tip-toeing around, afraid to post this article or that because some wee 'wussy' anti-shinner doesn't have a hissy fit and say that its all lies, and the news source is not credible. So why don't you just all get together and post a list of news sources we can use. Talk about censorship of the highest degree. Yet, the SF supporters get fecking accused of trying to start a big riot when we ask kat to substantiate a statement that was made from another website for godsakes!

You all need to realize that things are going to be said, printed, televised, communicated, and spread all over the internet that may not be true......get used to it, we shinners have! :whip:

[Jim]

Most ordinary people, whom I have spoken to, would be in agreement with the Irish News on this one.


The same ordinary people who believed the provos ran brothels in west belfast no doubt.

Does talking about these allegations and the RIRA constitute ordinary everyday conversation for you with ordinary people ffs?

[quirk]

You know what quirk, the bottom line is this! I would like to be able to post any goddamn article I want to post, if it stirs debate! I am sick of seeing only the crap articles that only deal with the 'chuckle brothers' and the selling out of the republicans, and stormont castle, and the 'tom and gerry' show and all the rest of that garbage you anti-shinners like to pile high on Sinn Fein. Those articles only come from reliable sources evidently??? So they are ok to post, as long as it doesn't reflect poorly or negatively on the highly esteemed 32CSM or RSF. Well that doesn't wash with me, that's why I wanted to get to the bottom of this matter and have it be settled one way or another.

Post any article you want no one is stopping you. But people are not going to agree with what is in it just to make you feel better. Also I am not an anti shinner and your labelling of me as that shows you must not read anything that I write. You have been trying to push this story from the begining despite the fact that no one believes it and despite the fact that it is clearly part of a British criminalisation agenda and most sadly despite the fact that this agenda will ultimatly end up with people in jail or dead (after they have been painted as criminals for long enough).

Also you havent sought to get to the bottom of anything. You have sought to try to discredit the 32CSM and RIRA and this has been clear throughout from the fact that when you are told that the Irish News did receive statements you just ignore this yet you are willing to believe anything Doran or Morris tells you. You have even be so eager to believe this story that you made the bizarre claim that why would the Irish News publish such a story if it was untrue and risk being taken to court by the RIRA. You eagerness to criticise republicans has made you forget your logic.

If you sought to back the story up why didnt you ask the Irish News for evidence rather than just their opinion as surely you already knew what their opinion was.

I'm sick of tip-toeing around, afraid to post this article or that because some we 'wussy' anti-shinner doesn't have a hissy fit and say that its all lies, and the news source is not credible. So why don't you just all get together and post a list of news sources we can use. Talk about censorship of the highest degree. Yet, the SF supporters get fecking accused of trying to start a big riot when we ask kat to substantiate a statement that was made from another website for godsakes!

People do go over board in their criticism of PSF sometimes. That is something I am well aware of. But you are doing the same thing now Hildy so you have no right to complain in future. No need to criticse others for what you are doing yourself.

What has Kat got to do with this threat and the validity of the story in question? Kat is a member of RSF so why bring her up? If you think all republican separatists are the same and have the same beliefs and can be lumped together then you have much to learn.


You all need to realize that things are going to be said, printed, televised, communicated, and spread over the internet that may not be true......get used to it, we shinners have!

Did we ever say such things wouldn't be printed. Indeed in our new years statement we predicted such stories. I also welcome all such stories being put on forums for debate because people can clearly see through them. What I didnt expect was yourself to be pushing such an agenda so vigorously in spite of the evidence and despite the obvious fact that its purpose is to prepare peoples minds for an assault on republican separatists in the real world which will have serious consequences.

[Liam Lynch]

As numerous polls on this board suggest, it is hardly reflective of Irish public opinion as it constitutes a specific interest group. Most ordinary people, whom I have spoken to, would be in agreement with the Irish News on this one.

Talk about the trolls feeding the trolls.

[Liam Lynch]

You all need to realize that things are going to be said, printed, televised, communicated, and spread all over the internet that may not be true......get used to it, we shinners have! :whip:

But in this instance you clearly sought to bolster what you knew to be untrue.

[Hildy]

quirk, mo chara, I have no bone to pick with you......and yes! I am going to post any article I want that is news worthy, and if that happens to be the Irish News I will post it. Not because it makes me 'FEEL' better! Its very obvious that 32CSM and RSF won't believe it, and that's your choice. All I was trying to accomplish here was to see what the Irish News' statement was regarding the allegations that YOUR group started on this forum. I was attacked for posting a newspaper article......I didn't write the damn thing, I just posted it, like we do 100 times a day......the contentious thread that started this whole sequence of events was started here. (http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7668)....."Groundless tripe from the Irish News"......pretty provacative statement, IMO. What is the old adage?....."Don't kill the messenger, if you don't like the message"! Well it applies here!


So its your word against theirs, I agree, but neither side has shown me any proof that what they're are alledging in those articles are true or not. This was not started by me, I have no agenda to push ffs! Are you crazy? What do I have to gain? What agenda do I have? If someone tells me that a major newspaper publisher is lying, then it is my right to question them on it. And anyone else who is paying for the paper in question should do the same!


I applaud your efforts in staging the protest and asking them to answer your requests for substantiating their allegations. But quirk, they are getting these stories from someone, somewhere, they aren't just making them up. If they are getting them from nefarious sources then they would be less credible in my eyes, but how can that be proven? It is your word against theirs.


And I did not mean to label you, individually per se', as an 'anti-shinner', I know that you have always been fair in your treatment of everyone, no matter what their party affiliation. I just lumped everyone together that is always against SF, and directed to you as the 'conduit', if you will. I am not trying to label anyone on this forum.....but how else do I classify it? That's how I see it.


Look, when articles are posted that have a negative connotation regarding SF, we have to 'suck it up' and take it. And we do! We don't go around whinging and say that the news source is lying, and if we did and really thought that, I can wager I would be the first one trying to get answers, just like I did here. We are doing it right now on this forum. The innuendos and connotations about the Quinn and McCartney tragedies are a daily fare around here that is served up to us. You don't think that is dangerous and salacious fodder? I do! I'm constantly writing news organizations asking them to give me substantiated sources or links for what they are saying, you just have no idea what I do behind the scenes. No one does! If someone is wrongly accused in those murders don't you think their life is in danger of death and unjust prosecution. I can't count the times I've been told that everyone knows who the murderer's are. Well, then why haven't they been arrested and charged. What makes the RIRA any different? Why are they innocent in your eyes and not the IRA who are being targeted for these heinous crimes?


Also, I hate to say this, but why would the british government really make your small group a high priority. Its not like you are even going to make a dent in any type of armed campaign, now is it? I mean what are their motives for targeting the 32CSM and the RIRA? It's not like you are going to overthrow the government! Please explain it because I don't know what the membership is of either group, but educate me as why this would be a high priority to them? AND.....this is a BIG AND, why would they involve the Irish News, and why would the Irish News be in any kind of collusion with them....for what reason? Just explain those questions to me because I'd really like to know.


The Irish news is reporting on criminal and drug activity that has nothing to do really with an organized armed campaign directed at the british government. Because that would be nuts, you know that and I know that! And yes, quirk, unfortunately anyone participating in criminal activity will be put in jail and we all know the risks, SF included! Does that make it easier, no it doesn't, does that make it right, probably not. But we've known that for the past 800 years or so, especially the past 40 years. And the funny bit about this whole scenario is that you really don't have to convince me at all. You (I'm using you, to encompass your group) have to convince the 50,000 readers of the Irish News. Not me! I am inconsequential in the big picture! It has NOTHING to do with what I think anyway!


You are totally wrong about me trying to discredit the 32CSM and the RIRA. I just want the truth, like you want the truth about what SF is accused of. That simple. I don't have to do a thing to discredit them, they are being discredited already, so that is ridiculous. The pitiful thing is, I actually know how you feel, isn't that rather bazaar?


I was challenged by Carlos, whom I have as much respect for as I do you quirk, to write to the Irish News and ask them if they would answer to the allegations of both parties.

I wrote:

I have become concerned with a couple of threads that have been posted, implying that the recent articles printed in the Irish News are all lies and that Allison Morris and the Irish News are in Sinn Fein's pocket. I would really like you comment on this issue, especially Ms. Morris if she feels it is important enough to comment.


How much more to the point do I have to be, quirk? I was answered by both Mr. Doran and Ms. Morris, she declined to make comment. He was candid and acknowledged hearing from Mr. Martin, but that Mr. Martin was remiss in following up on both occasions, so I'm supposed to believe that he is lying? I'm not going to accuse Mr. Doran of lying quirk. I didn't not know the circumstances surrounding this, and have to take at face value that he may have indeed not heard back from Mr. Martin. So don't blame me for not asking for any 'evidence', that is absurd! I asked for their comments, I delivered their comments. I have no idea what their opinion is! That is a ludicrous statement and I think you know that.


And lastly, as far as me 'dragging kat' in on this thread, I should have not mentioned her, as she has nothing to do with this you are correct. My aplogies kat...... It could have been member XYZ, for all that matters. I was using the "O Caolain speaks with forked tongue" thread as an example as to what a double standard substantiation really is on this forum if it happens to fit into your 'agenda'. In other words, your group is all up in arms because of allegations that a reputable news paper made some allegations against your group, and they are considered liars and on a 'british criminalization campaign', but someone can post other allegations off a website, with no link and that's allowed......my point being that you can't have it both ways.


So please don't take offense in my efforts to find both sides of this argument. I was trying to be neutral and see for myself what the Irish News response was going to be. I definitely have no agenda. My only agenda is to exchange opinions with the other members of this forum, including you quirk. I am not out to lay the blame on anyone and if you saw it that way, you misconstrued my intentions, and I want to set the record straight. I have nothing against the 32CSM, the RIRA, the RSF or anyone. I feel I am very open-minded when it comes to this cause.


In fact I hate the word 'separatists', because then it delineates and configures certain parts of what a Republican is. And those are just parts, we need each other to be whole, we need to stick together instead of separating each other. What is 'republican separatists' anyway? I have no idea! If you are a republican you are the same as me, as anyone of us. So we need to ditch that terminology first of all. And then define what we ALL want as republicans! The next steps should be easy!

Cheers, quirk!

In Solidarity, Hildy

[Armaghrifleteam]

Hildy top notch work, Don't worry about anything you keep posting what you think would be a good debatable subject like this one, I wouldn't doubt it that Ms. Morris promised to run the spread from 32csm but reneged on their promise.
(they do that kind of shyte all the time) I have never trusted the word of the press ever since they twist and turn stories,Quotes, and interviews for a living...

If it was me I would try to get the spread published somewhere else w/ the mentioning what the Irish News did (Thats would a very interesting topic) I know I'd pick one up...

Quirk- Are you lads still going to push this issue w/ the New so hopefully they post it and are you lads going to stage another picket?

[ciaranxavier]

You know what quirk, the bottom line is this! I would like to be able to post any goddamn article I want to post, if it stirs debate! I am sick of seeing only the crap articles that only deal with the 'chuckle brothers' and the selling out of the republicans, and stormont castle, and the 'tom and gerry' show and all the rest of that garbage you anti-shinners like to pile high on Sinn Fein. Those articles only come from reliable sources evidently??? So they are ok to post, as long as it doesn't reflect poorly or negatively on the highly esteemed 32CSM or RSF. Well that doesn't wash with me, that's why I wanted to get to the bottom of this matter and have it be settled one way or another.

I'm sick of tip-toeing around, afraid to post this article or that because some wee 'wussy' anti-shinner doesn't have a hissy fit and say that its all lies, and the news source is not credible. So why don't you just all get together and post a list of news sources we can use. Talk about censorship of the highest degree. Yet, the SF supporters get fecking accused of trying to start a big riot when we ask kat to substantiate a statement that was made from another website for godsakes!

You all need to realize that things are going to be said, printed, televised, communicated, and spread all over the internet that may not be true......get used to it, we shinners have! :whip:

first why would you be afraid to post something, second when did you appoint yourself the PSF poo poo slinger?

[Hildy]

first why would you be afraid to post something, second when did you appoint yourself the PSF poo poo slinger?

I don't know cx????:confused: Because I'm a 'sucker' for SF??? You tell me? But thank you, at least for not attacking me. I appreciate that coming from you, mo chara!:)

[Hildy]

Hildy top notch work, Don't worry about anything you keep posting what you think would be a good debatable subject like this one, I wouldn't doubt it that Ms. Morris promised to run the spread from 32csm but reneged on their promise.
(they do that kind of shyte all the time) I have never trusted the word of the press ever since they twist and turn stories,Quotes, and interviews for a living...

If it was me I would try to get the spread published somewhere else w/ the mentioning what the Irish News did (Thats would a very interesting topic) I know I'd pick one up...

Quirk- Are you lads still going to push this issue w/ the New so hopefully they post it and are you lads going to stage another picket?

Oh, Armagh, what can I say......just this, plain and simple......Yer a keeper!:bow:

luv ye!

Hildy:tease:

[Carlos McJackle]

i think we should remember the same person who now believes alison morris did not receive a verbal statement , followed by written statement , also believes the RIRA army council should sue the editor of the Irish News for libel .

lets just put these posts in their proper perspective

[East Tyrone]

The same ordinary people who believed the provos ran brothels in west belfast no doubt.

Does talking about these allegations and the RIRA constitute ordinary everyday conversation for you with ordinary people ffs?

Never saw that one, must have been written when I was out of the country, what paper was it in? Sounds like sindo or sunday world shyte.

[tireoghan]

Dont know why the 32csm are getting annoyed - this is typical trash from the Irish News. Anyone in the Provisional movement will tell you that during their phase of resistance to the 6 county state - the Irish News tried repeatedly to blacken the name of Republicans, numerous examples come to mind.

This is yet another example of the hand the media plays in the propping up of the GFA.

Wouldnt loose much sleep over it.

[Jim]

Dont know why the 32csm are getting annoyed - this is typical trash from the Irish News. Anyone in the Provisional movement will tell you that during their phase of resistance to the 6 county state - the Irish News tried repeatedly to blacken the name of Republicans, numerous examples come to mind.

This is yet another example of the hand the media plays in the propping up of the GFA.

Wouldnt loose much sleep over it.

No one is losing sleep over the allegations which are untrue but some people are trying to suggest that we or our publicity people are telling lies and this is unacceptable,especially when its people who continually bringing up these allegations on the basis that their people have taken negative coverage in the press.
Quite spiteful in my view and irrational considering how a lot of the negative coverage in the press comes from named sources and not unnamed sources as it was on this occasion.

[ciaranxavier]

No one is losing sleep over the allegations which are untrue but some people are trying to suggest that we or our publicity people are telling lies and this is unacceptable,especially when its people who continually bringing up these allegations on the basis that their people have taken negative coverage in the press.
Quite spiteful in my view and irrational considering how a lot of the negative coverage in the press comes from named sources and not unnamed sources as it was on this occasion.

whos we??? are you the editor of that rag mag?

[Jim]

whos we??? are you the editor of that rag mag?

People on this forum at telling lies that we didnt issue a statement when we did,read the thread my good chum.

[East Tyrone]

No one is losing sleep over the allegations which are untrue but some people are trying to suggest that we or our publicity people are telling lies and this is unacceptable,especially when its people who continually bringing up these allegations on the basis that their people have taken negative coverage in the press.
Quite spiteful in my view and irrational considering how a lot of the negative coverage in the press comes from named sources and not unnamed sources as it was on this occasion.

The handfull of people who turned up to protest must have taken it seriously enough to make the trip to Belfast.

[FreeDerry81]

The handfull of people who turned up to protest must have taken it seriously enough to make the trip to Belfast.

Yea theres a few there from Derry. Fair play

[Hildy]

People on this forum at telling lies that we didnt issue a statement when we did,read the thread my good chum.

Jim a chara, you're the one that needs to re-read the thread. No one said you (32CSM) didn't issue a statement. Are you blind? I sent the statement myself to the Editor! He said in his response back to me that they did receive a statement from 32CSM.....

We then received a statement from the 32CSM on January 23

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8423


Nothing I've said accuses ANYONE of lying! I said the stories don't add up, that's all. So who is lying here? What are you on about?:whip: