Gerry Adams says We are too small.

[Foyleview]

with 60 % of sinn fein membership in Ulster , Fianna Fail having 3000 cumman to our 3000 members, the stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us, the need to grow in the 23 counties is vital.
Join Sinn Fein. Join the next phase of struggle. lets get on with the business of uniting this county and establishing a 32 county socialist republic.

[VzN]

It's the only way foward.

[Jim]

with 60 % of sinn fein membership in Ulster , Fianna Fail having 3000 cumman to our 3000 members, the stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us, the need to grow in the 23 counties is vital.
Join Sinn Fein. Join the next phase of struggle. lets get on with the business of uniting this county and establishing a 32 county socialist republic.


How will it be done though?
Fianna Fail have been around for considerably longer than the provisionals and their electoral machine is unstopable.
The huge financial resources that the provos have would help of course but you cant throw money into an area and hope to get solid people on the ground,especially when their "career" would be better served in fianna fail a party who have same view on the north as the provos and have more opportuinites for government.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

"The stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us".

That's a bit paranoid. Why would the free state establishment need to destroy the Adams Faction when it is of not threat to them? After all it is administering British rule in the stolen six and is of only minor importance in Southern Irish politics.

[Seabird]

www.sinnfein.ie

Published: 2 February, 2008

Sinn Féin President, Gerry Adams addressed the AGM of the Party's Cúige Uladh on Saturday 2nd February in the Clanree Hotel, Letterkenny, Donegal.

Hundreds of Sinn Féin delegates from throughout the nine counties of Ulster attended the event. Foyle Sinn Féin MLA Martina Anderson and Donegal Councillor Pádraig Mac Lochlainn also spoke at the event

In his remarks Mr. Adams stressed the importance of the party's work to build Sinn Féin.

He said:

"We are endeavouring, to the best of our ability, in the Councils; in the Assembly; in Leinster House; in Údarás na Gaeltachta, and in the European Parliament, to ensure that our representatives are pursuing the correct policies, in keeping with our manifesto commitments and our republican objectives.

"In addition we are very aware of the need to ensure that the republican constituency, and our own organisation, understands what we are doing.

"And we are equally conscious of the imperative to communicate what we are doing and our vision of republicanism in the 21st century, and its relevance to everyday life, to the widest section of people and in a coherent and effective manner."

The Sinn Féin leader emphasised that the party is "not anti-business. We are pro-business".

Mr. Adams said:

"Neither are we a high tax party. Although, we are against the super profits being made by multi-nationals, and the big banks, like the obscene $31.3bn profit announced this week by Shell.

"To tackle this a special tax should be applied to profits over a reasonable percentage.

"Sinn Féin understands the need for a strong economy to provide the essential health and education and other services that citizens have a right to expect in the 21st century. Building the economy is therefore a major priority for our party.

"That means developing a new working relationship between our party and those who are trying to build their businesses and economic projects; particularly in the indigenous small and medium sized business sector and the trade union movement.

"Sinn Féin also actively supports workers rights, including the right to a fair wage, decent conditions of employment and the right to be part of a trade union.

"We need to work together to deliver the next generation of jobs that will drive the economy forward and sustain economic prosperity."
Referring to the Assembly debate last week on the Programme for Government, the Budget, and the Investment Package Mr. Adams spoke of the progress that was made, the attitude of the SDLP and the imperative of securing 'economic sovereignty'.

He said:

"The electorate here in the south is starting to wake up to the way it which it was conned in the recent election.

"But unless we build a credible campaigning alternative for them to support it will be difficult to make the progress necessary to fully tackle inequalities in our society.

"An important part of this is the progress made last week in the northern Assembly where we secured agreement on the Programme for Government, the Budget, and the Investment Package.

"This was a very significant achievement which was widely welcomed. On the other hand the negative attitude of the SDLP was not. The SDLP's deranged behaviour in the Assembly is proof that it hasn't recovered from the electoral setback it received last March. It has no coherent leadership and no coherent politics and it obvious that its leadership lives in a little world of its own.

"Back in the real world Sinn Féin takes satisfaction from the fact that the Programme for Government, the Budget, and the Investment Package were equality proofed.

"That means that government policy and the money it spends are being scrutinised to ensure that they are being applied and used in the best interests of all citizens.

"This is the first time this has ever happened. And it is entirely due to the determined approach of the Sinn Féin Ministers and our Assembly team.

"However we are very mindful that this is only the first Programme for Government, Budget, and Investment Package of this Executive.

"And we know that there are many problems of disadvantage and poverty, in particular child poverty, in urban and rural areas; there is serious underfunding in our health and education services; in the environment; on cultural rights; in infrastructure; in our agricultural industry and economy; in housing provision, and across many other issues.

"We don't have enough money to do what we would like. The reality is that we have to work within an inadequate block grant from the British Government.

"It is a significant problem that taxation and public expenditure policies are determined in London. The fact is we are on the edge of British Exchequer concerns. That is self-evident in the inadequate block grant, the absence of any meaningful financial peace dividend, as well as London's refusal to accept the need for a lowering of corporation tax.

"No British Chancellor - no British government - has ever worried about the impact of their policies on people living in East Belfast, or North Antrim or the Shankill.

"Lack of economic sovereignty is something that the Assembly and Executive, and unionism in particular, will have to face up to in the time ahead. The current financial structures do not work for citizens in the north. We need greater fiscal independence and an increase in the block grant if we are to deliver high-quality public services, and have a bigger, better, more effective, more efficient and prosperous economy.

"That means the Executive and the Assembly presenting the British Government with a united position which seeks greater economic sovereignty in the time ahead. It also means all of us, including unionists, building on the economic and business links that exist on this island.

"I am convinced that sustainable social and economic progress will only occur in the context of a single-island economy. And irrespective of our other differences, none of the parties in the Assembly underestimates the potential for greater prosperity that the all-Ireland political institutions, agencies and bodies can bring in times ahead."

Gerry Adams also set out some of the calendar of work ahead of party activists, including our party Ard Fheis in four weeks, the 10th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, and a second run of Townhall Meetings that are scheduled for April.

He said:

"At the end of this month we will be holding our Ard Fheis. In addition, April 10th is the 10th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. To mark that landmark date Sinn Fein will be organising another series of Townhall meetings in April.

"These events will provide us with an opportunity to reflect on the positive gains made in the last 10 years; the positive work that has been done on policing and justice since last January; and to outline our Sinn Féin vision for the road ahead and the achievement of our republican goals.

"These meetings will also provide Sinn Fein with an opportunity to report on our stewardship and to explain our strategy and goals for the time ahead. Later in the year we plan to do another series of Townhall meetings throughout the South.

"This year we also celebrate the 40th anniversary of the civil rights campaign taking to the streets. So, as in 1988 when we marked the 20th anniversary of the Civil Rights campaign, Sinn Féin will be organising a series of events, including public meetings, marches, and debates to commemorate NICRA s unique and important contribution to the last 40 years.

"The Cúige will also be involved in the next few months in the campaign against the Lisbon Treaty. Sinn Féin will be the only significant party campaigning against the Lisbon Treaty referendum. It will be a tough and difficult campaign. But I believe that Sinn Féin will be standing with the majority of people on this island who share our concerns about the direction of the EU."

Concluding Mr. Adams said;

"We have a lot of work ahead of us - all part of the jigsaw of activities and strategies which are about building this party; building our electoral support; advancing our republican goals; and building the future.

"To succeed we have to take the republican message of hope and change, of progress and equality, to every village and town and city; to every street and parish; to every corner of this island; and to every citizen.

"Today we can take great confidence from the reality that republicanism is bigger and more popular than in generations; and is ready to achieve what those previous generations only dreamed of. This is our time to change the course of Irish history." ENDS

[Cael]

You lot are finished in the 26. Time to wake up to that. The only role you have before you is the role the SDLP used to play, i.e. Good Natives in the service of the English Crown.

[decko murray]

why dont sf and sdlp merge ,might make a great team

[Mellows1922]

You lot are finished in the 26. Time to wake up to that. .

Would you like to have an aul internet wager on that Cael - say the upcoming 26 county locals.

[Mellows1922]

why dont sf and sdlp merge ,might make a great team

like you and Peter Kay ?

two comedy legends.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

like you and Peter Kay ?

two comedy legends.


Not quite as funny as that famous double act, Lord Adams of Ballymurphy and Lord McGuinness of the Bogside, or the latter and his good friend Ian Paisley.

[jesus begorragh]

1200 members in the south ?

[Carlos McJackle]

with 60 % of sinn fein membership in Ulster , Fianna Fail having 3000 cumman to our 3000 members, the stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us, the need to grow in the 23 counties is vital.
Join Sinn Fein. Join the next phase of struggle. lets get on with the business of uniting this county and establishing a 32 county socialist republic.

keep adams off the tv and you might stand some chance :eusa_dance:

[Liam Lynch]

with 60 % of sinn fein membership in Ulster , Fianna Fail having 3000 cumman to our 3000 members, the stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us, the need to grow in the 23 counties is vital.
Join Sinn Fein. Join the next phase of struggle. lets get on with the business of uniting this county and establishing a 32 county socialist republic.


This Cannot Lead To The Republic (http://www.32csm.info/crim.html)

[Irish Republican Patriot]

If Sir Gerry had been in the 1980's the way he is now Thatcher would have had no problem about inviting such a loyal subject of Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha around for tea.

[decko murray]

like you and Peter Kay ?

two comedy legends.

our you jealous because im a legend, at least im not a two faced traitor who sold for a bit of power and money.big GERRY im talking about now

[Koneko]

our you jealous because im a legend, at least im not a two faced traitor who sold for a bit of power and money.big GERRY im talking about now

read the rules mate. no calling republicans on this forum a traitor. 1st warning

[decko murray]

read the rules mate. no calling republicans on this forum a traitor. 1st warning

whatever ,so it ok in this republican forum to have people on this forum who would gladly go to psni/ruc with information about republicans.they should not be a lound on the forum if thats the case then.

[Foyleview]

whatever ,so it ok in this republican forum to have people on this forum who would gladly go to psni/ruc with information about republicans.they should not be a lound on the forum if thats the case then.

just let you loose with a barratt 50 or a machine gun, a few sticks of explosive s and you d free us all on this forum from this repressive regime.

[DFCRFB]

whatever ,so it ok in this republican forum to have people on this forum who would gladly go to psni/ruc with information about republicans.they should not be a lound on the forum if thats the case then.

read the rules. they are there for a reason.

[ciaranxavier]

whatever ,so it ok in this republican forum to have people on this forum who would gladly go to psni/ruc with information about republicans.they should not be a lound on the forum if thats the case then.

lets start an inquisition, i believe YOUVE gone to the psni ban him.

[grainne]

Gerry Adams says We are to small
SF as a party can only get smaller.

[Cael]

read the rules mate. no calling republicans on this forum a traitor. 1st warning


But he wasnt calling republicans traitors, he was calling Crown employees traitors.

[DFCRFB]

But he wasnt calling republicans traitors, he was calling Crown employees traitors.

people in the civil service work for the 'crown'. suppose they are traitors as well.

[DFCRFB]

SF as a party can only get smaller.

that was said before the last election and they got bigger in terms of the overall vote :hmmm:

[grainne]

that was said before the last election and they got bigger in terms of the overall vote :hmmm:

I just see SF getting smaller & smaller.Its gonna take years befour they are taken seriously in the south,members have already left in huge numbers
throughout the last ten years & i feel they will continue to leave in huge numbers.When the armed struggle is intensified & the PSNI are fully exposed as the RUC that they are,more people will leave SF.as its been pointed out in another thread,Many SFers in derry would have been sick at the show of strengh by the RUC in derry at the weekend.they are still the same.no change.some SFers on this board have said that they would end their support for SF if this ever happend,or that ever happend.why wait for the inevitable.

[Carlos McJackle]

gerry adams is finished in the south as a national leader . hes a joke , a liability to his own party within the 26 counties . If anything McGuiness is worse . Tht end of things is over for them untill they completely restructure

as regards the north repubican opposition to stormont has never been higher in the last 10 years , even within stormont itself . That constituency is getting stronger and more confident and vocal by the day . It has a very long way to go yet but it at least its finally going . All sinn fein can hope to do is what the stoops did for decades . Get in that republican constituencys way at every opportunity

[grainne]

Aye and McGuiness on hearts & minds the other nite started to back track on the 2016 date that he mentioned a while back,could be 2017/18/19/20 he said.He wasnt really sure what year he was talking about.And when pulled on Gerrys departure,he did what all british ministers do,he played it down.red faced at the question into the bargan.

[Mellows1922]

gerry adams is finished in the south as a national leader . hes a joke , a liability to his own party within the 26 counties.

That is just not true Carlos, admittedly his performance with McDowell that night was a shambles and had a pretty negative impact, it was a once off, I've never seen him so illprepared before and I doubt we will see it again. Personally I believe he had been advised to keep his mouth shut and not say anything that would cause controversy, it was exceptionally bad advise and only succeeded in making him look clueless.

It won't happen again.

as regards the north repubican opposition to stormont has never been higher in the last 10 years , even within stormont itself . That constituency is getting stronger and more confident and vocal by the day . It has a very long way to go yet but it at least its finally going . All sinn fein can hope to do is what the stoops did for decades . Get in that republican constituencys way at every opportunity

I think you are overinflating in the extreme the size of the crowd populating the fringes of Republicanism. Time will tell.

[Jim]

Changing tax policy literally weeks before the election in an attempt to woo fianna fail into a coalition doesnt exactly bode well for the future in terms of policy id have thought.

[Foyleview]

SF as a party can only get smaller.

Sinn Fein got bigger last election ! We Increased our vote ! I can only speak for Donegal on cumman strength, we have five new cumman since September. Thats getting Bigger.

[grainne]

Sinn Fein got bigger last election ! We Increased our vote ! I can only speak for Donegal on cumman strength, we have five new cumman since September. Thats getting Bigger.

The reincarnation of the armed struggle will see the
demise of SF cumman up & down the country.
There are still loads of good republicans within SF but
at the moment they continue to cling to that dying dream.
History has repeated itself in this country for 100s of years
What makes you think this century will be any different?

There are far to many good loyal to the cause republicans out there
Who are gonna make sure that those loyal to the crown are defeated in their
attempts to strengthen british rule & support/defend british police.

[Foyleview]

The reincarnation of the armed struggle will see the
demise of SF cumman up & down the country.
There are still loads of good republicans within SF but
at the moment they continue to cling to that dying dream.
History has repeated itself in this country for 100s of years
What makes you think this century will be any different?

There are far to many good loyal to the cause republicans out there
Who are gonna make sure that those loyal to the crown are defeated in their
attempts to strengthen british rule & support/defend british police.

A Chara, i think you are so so wrong. shooting and blowing people up does not unite them. reincarnation of the armed struggle what a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers. I cannot express to you how opposed i am to your position. the use of armed resistance is only something to be used for defence or when there is NO other options available.

[Hildy]

grainne, mo chara, I hate to point out the obvious.....but if what you say is true, and that there is only strength in numbers, what chance does the other groups have? I mean I hardly think that 150 RIRA volunteers are going to take on the whole british military, now do you? :D

I wouldn't count SF out quite yet! They have a lot still to do, and they are just getting started. We will see in a year's time what the majority of the people will think then. I don't think we have to worry much, the people of the north are getting to like this peaceful environment they live in.

Cheers, Hildy!

hey Foyleview, I'm not trying to follow you around on purpose! I promise! Good post tho!:)

[grainne]

A Chara, i think you are so so wrong. shooting and blowing people up does not unite them. reincarnation of the armed struggle what a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers. I cannot express to you how opposed i am to your position. the use of armed resistance is only something to be used for defence or when there is NO other options available.

I said nothing anywere about blowing up shoppers.i would be strongly opposed to any such action,as would everybody else on this board.
The reincarnation of the armed struggle & the demise of SF go hand in hand.
SF are now largely seen as the SDLP.same sort of folk if you ask me.
Republicans have the right to use armed resistance,and if they wack a few cops or bomb the center of london,im not gonna condem them like you would.

With the armed struggle back on SFs way forward will start to go backwards.

[Hildy]

Republicans have the right to use armed resistance,and if they wack a few cops or bomb the center of london,im not gonna condem them like you would.

With the armed struggle back on SFs way forward will start to go backwards.

Well I wouldn't say whacking a few cops or bombing london center is the way forward, grainne. That's sounds a bit like stepping back into the past that we just came out from!

[grainne]

grainne, mo chara, I hate to point out the obvious.....but if what you say is true, and that there is only strength in numbers, what chance does the other groups have? I mean I hardly think that 150 RIRA volunteers are going to take on the whole british military, now do you
Good question hildy,something i often think about,but as long as they oppose the brits & arent gonna sit down and give everything away bit by bit then ask us to inform on our neighbours,i dont really mind.as long as they stay true.
[QUOTE]I wouldn't count SF out quite yet! They have a lot still to do, and they are just getting started. We will see in a year's time what the majority of the people will think then. I don't think we have to worry much, the people of the north are getting to like this peaceful environment they live in.
[QUOTE]
Nor would i,id say they still a bit of steam left in the engine yet.
Hildy i hate to point to the obvious,but the people of the north are fed up with incidents like the mc cartny/quinn cases,people are starting to see through SF.
Id say their days are numberd.votes in the south said alot last year,or should i say the lack of them.

[grainne]

Well I wouldn't say whacking a few cops or bombing london center is the way forward, grainne. That's sounds a bit like stepping back into the past that we just came out from!

No it wouldnt be stepping into the past,it would be moving away from the present,which is the farce at stormont.

Supporting the RUC is no way forward either

[Hildy]

Good question hildy,something i often think about,but as long as they oppose the brits & arent gonna sit down and give everything away bit by bit then ask us to inform on our neighbours,i dont really mind.as long as they stay true.

We all hope that no one gives anything away bit by bit. I don't think that's SF is trying to do that. They are trying to work towards getting everything back that is rightfully the people of the north. They are just going about it in another way.


Nor would i,id say they still a bit of steam left in the engine yet.
Hildy i hate to point to the obvious,but the people of the north are fed up with incidents like the mc cartny/quinn cases,people are starting to see through SF.
Id say their days are numberd.votes in the south said alot last year,or should i say the lack of them.


Yes, grainne you are right. The people of the north are fed up with those horrid crimes, we all are. I have said before, that in no way do I condone any group or individuals committing such horrific murders and no matter who they are, be it SF, IRA or whomever, they deserve the most severe punishment allowable. But I also know the majority of the people don't want british soldiers back in watchtowers and patroling the streets. They don't want the RUC back in control of the police, and that's what you will get if another armed struggle or 'war' is started! How will it be stopped if these threats to take up arms comes to fruition? God help us all if that happens! You think the Quinn and McCartney killings are bad, we will have more of them on both sides and what will that have accomplished. There will be retaliation all over the place. So I pray that doesn't happen!

[jesus begorragh]

grainne, mo chara, I hate to point out the obvious.....but if what you say is true, and that there is only strength in numbers, what chance does the other groups have? I mean I hardly think that 150 RIRA volunteers are going to take on the whole british military, now do you?

1200 members in the whole of the 26 is not a lot either

shocking actually

have we all bought the peace process hype and over-inflated sinn fein's importance

it would appear so

something to think about



:allahu:

[Foyleview]

1200 members in the whole of the 26 is not a lot either

shocking actually

have we all bought the peace process hype and over-inflated sinn fein's importance

it would appear so

something to think about



:allahu:
think about what mo chara. elaborate please .

[jesus begorragh]

Adams gave the numbers (according to the thread), 3000 FF Cumann to Sinn Fein's 3000 members, 1800 in the north, 1200 in the south (60/40 split). A majority of the 1200 is based in Dublin.

That is not a lot of people.


It is a very small amount of people, in the big scheme of things.


Have we been sold an over-inflated sense of importance of how relevant and big a player SF is? Without the peace process, SF's relevance is even further reduced, and without the numbers...


Given the hype I would have thought SF had more than 1200 members in the whole of the 26.


If SF's importance has been over-inflated due to the peace process, where does that leave SF, especially if they are unable to sustain the hype and translate that into votes and higher membership (as it appears they are unable to do)?

And if SF can't do it, where does that leave other republicans?

Not a most encouraging picture

But I would rather have a realistic picture than one painted with hype

[ciaranxavier]

if gerry adams had eaten his wheatys hed not be worrying about being to small.

[Comrade Ryan]

that was said before the last election and they got bigger in terms of the overall vote :hmmm:

Because you ran in more constituencies no? Not to say that you shouldn't, of course you should try to exploit whatever opportunities exist, but on a like with like analysis, where you compare the votes of the same seats in the two elections SF lost ground.

And they're overall growth, miniscule as it was, does not mask this fact.

[Comrade Ryan]

A Chara, i think you are so so wrong. shooting and blowing people up does not unite them. reincarnation of the armed struggle what a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers. I cannot express to you how opposed i am to your position. the use of armed resistance is only something to be used for defence or when there is NO other options available.

Rubbish - Foyleview are you employed in waste management or something because I have seen nothing but garbage in your posts.

Like ET, you have a seriously twisted view of armed struggle coming froma member of a party to it not so long ago. You references to it are so emotionally loaded that they escape the bounds of rationality. The whole noton that reincarnation of armed struggle is 'a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers' is absolute tripe.

So this is what armed struggle means? Is that was defined the armed struggle of the PIRA? Was their armed struggle or their right to employ it defined by 'Bloody Friday' or the 'Shankill Bombing'. Dont be so dense.

I do not think amred struggle is the best way forward, however, I cannot abide the hypocracisy displayed by you and ET amongst others.

[Carlos McJackle]

[QUOTE]That is just not true Carlos, admittedly his performance with McDowell that night was a shambles and had a pretty negative impact, it was a once off, I've never seen him so illprepared before and I doubt we will see it again.

im pretty sure we wont see it again , at least not from him . He simply wont be there . It also just happened to be a once off on a supposedly historic breakthrough .

Personally I believe he had been advised to keep his mouth shut and not say anything that would cause controversy, it was exceptionally bad advise and only succeeded in making him look clueless.

he was utterly clueless , and well before the debate even started . You cannot expect to go into a televised debate with an extremist like Michael McDowell and not have controversy . thats just an idiotic expectation .you cannot expect to go into a live television studio on the eve of a breakthrough election and say nothing . All he wanted to talk about was the bloody peace process , outside of that script he was totally washed up and whats more his opponents knew it . I shudder to think at what other advice hes been receiving over the years .

It won't happen again.

this is national electoral politics , not the tribal artificial propped up nonsense in stormont or a stage managed ard feis , and once you make a gaffe like that your finished on a national level . Its the survival of the fittest and a bigger animal in the jungle ate him up and spat out the bones . Thats it , over as far as hes concerned .

michael McDowell has retired . Being trounced by a deeply unpopular failed politician on television is unlikely to happen again but Adams is damaged goods and a liability now . If he couldnt make the breakthrough on the back of the return to stormont and backslapping with the DUP hell never make it . Hes already talking about a life after politics and when that happens someones ready to get their coat with their eye on the door .


I think you are overinflating in the extreme the size of the crowd populating the fringes of Republicanism. Time will tell.

time already is telling . The seperatist base has steadily grown in size and is becoming more widespread and confident with every month that passes . Even Stormont MLAs are tiring of the bloody farce .

[DFCRFB]

Because you ran in more constituencies no? Not to say that you shouldn't, of course you should try to exploit whatever opportunities exist, but on a like with like analysis, where you compare the votes of the same seats in the two elections SF lost ground.

And they're overall growth, miniscule as it was, does not mask this fact.

well no. this was on the heel of announching their willingness to take part in the policing board and all that comes with it. The doom and gloom was predicted and the losses were predicted. in actual fact they gained more votes. maybe they stood more candidates but the actual electorate was always there to gain the votes from.

[Foyleview]

Rubbish - Foyleview are you employed in waste management or something because I have seen nothing but garbage in your posts.

Like ET, you have a seriously twisted view of armed struggle coming froma member of a party to it not so long ago. You references to it are so emotionally loaded that they escape the bounds of rationality. The whole noton that reincarnation of armed struggle is 'a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers' is absolute tripe.

So this is what armed struggle means? Is that was defined the armed struggle of the PIRA? Was their armed struggle or their right to employ it defined by 'Bloody Friday' or the 'Shankill Bombing'. Dont be so dense.

I do not think amred struggle is the best way forward, however, I cannot abide the hypocracisy displayed by you and ET amongst others.

Armed struggle is only justified when there is NO other alternative !!!
we had no other alternative then, but we have now...
I see the reals just want to shoot all the shinners now ! ref derry journal & legitimate targets.

[Comrade Ryan]

well no. this was on the heel of announching their willingness to take part in the policing board and all that comes with it. The doom and gloom was predicted and the losses were predicted. in actual fact they gained more votes. maybe they stood more candidates but the actual electorate was always there to gain the votes from.

Well no what?

I made a point which you have responded to, without having anything of value to add.

The losses were predicted yes, unfortunately not by your party though. In fact your party talked up the possibility of masssive gains - they expected massive gains. Don't tell me you don't recall the 12-15 seat targets, and even as the results started to turn sour Adams was at a count station saying he privately never though 12-15 but rather 8 seats, they got 4 a loss of one and the only seat held in Dublin was help by less than 100 votes.

So I stand uncorrected. The only reason for the miniscule increase in SF overall vote was as a result of standing in more constituencies - thats all. If you compare like with like you see a decrease.

Standing in more constituencies and picking up a few hundred here, one hundred there is not an accuarate barometer of where your party is. No for that you are better comparing like with like - the seats you ran for in both elections will give you an idea of where you are - although once you have carried this out its totally understandable why SF supporters shy away from it.

[Comrade Ryan]

Armed struggle is only justified when there is NO other alternative !!!
we had no other alternative then, but we have now...
I see the reals just want to shoot all the shinners now ! ref derry journal & legitimate targets.

Other people thought there were alternatives - see the largest nationalist party at the time SDLP.

SF & the IRA disagreed.

Today you feel Stormont is the alternative - others disagree.

Can you see a trend developing?

[mickyk200]

You lot are finished in the 26. Time to wake up to that. The only role you have before you is the role the SDLP used to play, i.e. Good Natives in the service of the English Crown.
lmfao! and you lads have the majority where?
emmm amongst the hoods in Kilwilkie?

[Foyleview]

Other people thought there were alternatives - see the largest nationalist party at the time SDLP.

SF & the IRA disagreed.

Today you feel Stormont is the alternative - others disagree.

Can you see a trend developing?
It is not as simple as that. I don t know what age you are but I grew up through it. I was a supporter of the provisional movement through it all. We had a stratagy then of armed struggle because our policy of political resistance ended on bloody sunday.
if you want to understand the strategy, read about the great escape from the maze.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

It is not as simple as that. I don t know what age you are but I grew up through it. I was a supporter of the provisional movement through it all. We had a stratagy then of armed struggle because our policy of political resistance ended on bloody sunday.
if you want to understand the strategy, read about the great escape from the maze.


The Provos were fighting the British long before Bloody Sunday, and political resistance was only carried out by the Provos then if you count armed struggle as a political act.

[Comrade Ryan]

It is not as simple as that. I don t know what age you are but I grew up through it. I was a supporter of the provisional movement through it all. We had a stratagy then of armed struggle because our policy of political resistance ended on bloody sunday.
if you want to understand the strategy, read about the great escape from the maze.

Don't teach your granny to suck eggs. I wouldn't imagine I've much to learn from you going by the nonsense in most of your posts.

If you want to understand the strategy, firstly stop calling Long Kesh the 'Maze'. Republican language 101, obviously you weren't around the movement to know that.

And the jail analogy is a nonsense too. It has been ripped to shreds anywhere it has been rolled out in front of critical ex-pows, and the people using the analogy have been struck dumb on each ocassion. Because its a lie friend.

They strategy in the jails was about conforming with the system to undermine and ulitmately smash it.

People were not told to join the screws or become prison govs so as to make it more accountable and to improve the treatment of individual prisoners on the wings.

The analogy is absolute rubbish and i've seen it obliterated more than once by those who were there.

On your other point, you see you say 'we had a strategy or armed struggle', and thats the point exactly the Republican Movement had a strategy, however, others felt differently and went on to represent the majority of nationalist opinion, a big majoirty of nationalist opinion, who felt that parliamentary politics were the way forward.

Today you feel parliamentary politics are the way forward and others disagree. See trend.

You may not agree but its the way it is unfortunately.

BTW, just by the gaffs I've witnessed you making here you might want to re-think putting 'we had a strategy of armed struggle' I'd hazzard an educated guess that you were no where near it old friend.

[Comrade Ryan]

The Provos were fighting the British long before Bloody Sunday, and political resistance was only carried out by the Provos then if you count armed struggle as a political act.

Facts aren't his strong suit - they seem to get in the way of his arguments.

[Hoops1888]

You lot are finished in the 26. Time to wake up to that. The only role you have before you is the role the SDLP used to play, i.e. Good Natives in the service of the English Crown.

:confused:

[Cael]

:confused:


Thats right Hoops, a chara, PSF are now just a slightly green window dressing for Stormont Castle. Their only function is to be wheeled out now and again to condemn Irish Republicans.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

i wonder what would happen if ian paisley and the DUP decided to recognise leinster house and participate in the said institution?.....would this not signify there acceptance of irish rule in the 6 counties?....so why do the psf heads try to paint there position as being different? i have word to describe it....DENIAL.

[wherenow]

Inis dom mo chara!

Tell me friend, how do you see us getting a united Ireland?

[RSF-Fianoglach]

personaly i believe firstly we should generate mass intrest in the situation and urge people to be more active,unless the mass of the population ireland get up off there backsides and support the movement then it wont get very far,the question is how do we generate mass intrest in the unresolved issue of irish sovreignty.

the fact is psf is far too small to ever have any worth while political impact,by them participating in present political establishments they are defeating themselves as they become ever more absorbed into constitutional politics untill someday in the near future they are just another drone party with a history of radical politics,but very little to show for it.PSF will attract more and more middle class wannabes who are attracted to the partys "romantic" history,and will spiral into obliviion as a result of these college educated middle classes with no republican background pouring into psf,these people have no real intrest in irish unification no more so than members of fianna fail or fina gael.

[wherenow]

Conas a dheanann muid é?

So, how do we generate a mass political movement? I personally believe that the northern state can never be reformed and that the tensions within the six counties will inevitably make permanent coalition government unworkable and lead to a political crisis.

The question to me is how we prepare and organise for this time. By splintering we make ourselves weaker and not stronger. Unity will be our strenght. RSF, PSF, Éirigi, 32 CSM and PSF is a joke. It's getting like Monty Phython. Sorry forgot IRSP

[Irish Republican Patriot]

i wonder what would happen if ian paisley and the DUP decided to recognise leinster house and participate in the said institution?.....would this not signify there acceptance of irish rule in the 6 counties?....so why do the psf heads try to paint there position as being different? i have word to describe it....DENIAL.


Bloody good point. Its Republicans who are always expected to do all the running even though we started the peace process. WE are always the one's who are expected to compromise and sacrifice OUR principles, not the "Unionists" or the British or anyone else. Well the truth is that it's just not bloody worth it, not that there's much point in trying to convince certain naive idiots who call themselves "Republicans" of that.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

Well I wouldn't say whacking a few cops or bombing london center is the way forward, grainne. That's sounds a bit like stepping back into the past that we just came out from!


hildy with all due respect this is a moot point considering irelands history is littered with rebellion,just because the 1798 rising didnt work,or the 50s campaign never stoped the provos waging war.

[Mellows1922]

i wonder what would happen if ian paisley and the DUP decided to recognise leinster house and participate in the said institution?.....would this not signify there acceptance of irish rule in the 6 counties.

Ah tomas, Paisley and the DUP do recognise the Dublin government, they also recognise that they have a part to play in the six counties, something they swore they would never allow, and they also interact with that governement on an all Ireland basis, something that will only become more frequent. Start with the North South Ministerial Council mo chara.

[Foyleview]

Ah tomas, Paisley and the DUP do recognise the Dublin government, they also recognise that they have a part to play in the six counties, something they swore they would never allow, and they also interact with that governement on an all Ireland basis, something that will only become more frequent. Start with the North South Ministerial Council mo chara.
A A h mellows. some people miss the presence of the british troups on our streets, they long for multipal check points, internment, gerrymandering, H blocks etc... they will never see that strength of arguement , persuation and dedication can bring to the goal of a united people in a united irish socialist republic. I am and my comrades are dedicated to delivering this project, despite the covert death threats from the perfect republican brigade.
.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

Ah tomas, Paisley and the DUP do recognise the Dublin government, they also recognise that they have a part to play in the six counties, something they swore they would never allow, and they also interact with that governement on an all Ireland basis, something that will only become more frequent. Start with the North South Ministerial Council mo chara.


You evaded Tomas' central point, that the DUP doesn't sit in Leinster House, while the Adams Faction sits in a BRITISH Assembly. As for the "North South Ministerial Council", the words "glorified talking shop" come to mind.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

A A h mellows. some people miss the presence of the british troups on our streets, they long for multipal check points, internment, gerrymandering, H blocks etc... they will never see that strength of arguement , persuation and dedication can bring to the goal of a united people in a united irish socialist republic. I am and my comrades are dedicated to delivering this project, despite the covert death threats from the perfect republican brigade.
.


You're a typical Adams Faction apparatchik; patronising, unduly smug, self-superior, deluded and incapable of responding to argument without resorting to slander, insult and lies.

[RSF-Fianoglach]

mellows and foil view,my point wasnt did paisley or the dup recognise leinster house,it was what would happen if they sat in leinster house and ministered from there,and at the same time try to say they were unionist?

[ciaranxavier]

Well I wouldn't say whacking a few cops or bombing london center is the way forward, grainne. That's sounds a bit like stepping back into the past that we just came out from!


hildy with all due respect this is a moot point considering irelands history is littered with rebellion,just because the 1798 rising didnt work,or the 50s campaign never stoped the provos waging war.

Well I wouldn't say whacking a few cops or bombing london center is the way forward, grainne. That's sounds a bit like stepping back into the past that we just came out from!

not really in the past our soldiers were fighting foreign occupation and attacking the representatives of that power. today the occupiers are still there giving legitimacy to the republican armies and english targets. anything english, whether it be the economics, military, or government are all viable targets.

[belfast rep]

mellows and foil view,my point wasnt did paisley or the dup recognise leinster house,it was what would happen if they sat in leinster house and ministered from there,and at the same time try to say they were unionist?

there is a few in Leinster who wouldn't have a problem being unionist, I wouldn't have a problem with Paisley in Leinster house. Paisley options or views do not dictate my views or my parties strategy.

[Cael]

there is a few in Leinster who wouldn't have a problem being unionist, I wouldn't have a problem with Paisley in Leinster house. Paisley options or views do not dictate my views or my parties strategy.


Sad to say, thats MI5s department.

[duggie-89]

"The stated aim of the free state establishment to destroy us".

That's a bit paranoid. Why would the free state establishment need to destroy the Adams Faction when it is of not threat to them? After all it is administering British rule in the stolen six and is of only minor importance in Southern Irish politics.

it is only a minor importance at the moment FF are looking ahead in the future. yes we had poor return on seats but a good growth in youth and border counties support.

[FTA69]

It is not as simple as that. I don t know what age you are but I grew up through it. I was a supporter of the provisional movement through it all. We had a stratagy then of armed struggle because our policy of political resistance ended on bloody sunday.
if you want to understand the strategy, read about the great escape from the maze.

The Provisional IRA never had a policy of political resistance at the start, they came into existance because of an opposition to political resistance. They also went on offensive operations well before Bloody Sunday. If you were around at the time you would know this, you are revising history at best, plain bullsh*tting at worst.

[Cael]

The Provisional IRA never had a policy of political resistance at the start, they came into existance because of an opposition to political resistance. They also went on offensive operations well before Bloody Sunday. If you were around at the time you would know this, you are revising history at best, plain bullsh*tting at worst.


I would say that the IRA always had a policy of political resistance. The very existence of the Irish Republic is the ultimate act of political resistance, as this pushes English Crown law off the position of The Law. Crown law becomes just one possible law that people can accept or reject. The existence of the Irish Republic is a totally peaceful form of political resistance.

[Young Irelander]

I would say that the IRA always had a policy of political resistance. The very existence of the Irish Republic is the ultimate act of political resistance, as this pushes English Crown law off the position of The Law. Crown law becomes just one possible law that people can accept or reject. The existence of the Irish Republic is a totally peaceful form of political resistance.

I agree that the there was a politcal resistance and a armed resistance, Sinn Fein where a political party and where in very much existance in the early 70's, late sixties, maybe in a way it was the end of the Civil Rights concerned politics and Bloody Sunday was a massive mistake by the British Forces and was a major recruiting opportunity for both republican movements, the Officials and the Provisional IRA, would people not agree that politics concerning Sinn Fein became important around the Hunger Strike when massive amounts of Republicans/Nationalists from all classes of people voted for Bobby Sands and fellow comrades...

[Cael]

I agree that the there was a politcal resistance and a armed resistance, Sinn Fein where a political party and where in very much existance in the early 70's, late sixties, maybe in a way it was the end of the Civil Rights concerned politics and Bloody Sunday was a massive mistake by the British Forces and was a major recruiting opportunity for both republican movements, the Officials and the Provisional IRA, would people not agree that politics concerning Sinn Fein became important around the Hunger Strike when massive amounts of Republicans/Nationalists from all classes of people voted for Bobby Sands and fellow comrades...


You shouldnt believe all that Adamsite spin. Politics has always been what Sinn Féin are about. Ruairí ó Brádaigh was elected a long time before Adams was. Dont confuse politics with becoming a British constitutional party.

[mickyk200]

You shouldnt believe all that Adamsite spin. Politics has always been what Sinn Féin are about. Ruairí ó Brádaigh was elected a long time before Adams was. Dont confuse politics with becoming a British constitutional party.
Politics have always been what Sínn Fein are about?
as if SF have never had a strong link with the PSF?
Sure our Gerry was never chief of staff...and it's not like Marty's name was a taunt to soldiers in Derry...

[Young Irelander]

You shouldnt believe all that Adamsite spin. Politics has always been what Sinn Féin are about. Ruairí ó Brádaigh was elected a long time before Adams was. Dont confuse politics with becoming a British constitutional party.

A British Constitutional party, when a party declares that they are stating they want an Irish Republic and where politically involved in the last a hundred years are so, and have always represented the Republican community, but when Republican Sinn Fein, a micro party split from Sinn Fein thats their choice they walked out instead of trying to convince other Sinn Fein members and cumanns to not recongnise the Irish Dail, they walked out and turnt their backs on the Republican Community, why does Sinn Fein get thousand of votes around the island of Eire and your micro groups dont, because they offer no serious alternative mate...

[Cael]

A British Constitutional party, when a party declares that they are stating they want an Irish Republic and where politically involved in the last a hundred years are so, and have always represented the Republican community, but when Republican Sinn Fein, a micro party split from Sinn Fein thats their choice they walked out instead of trying to convince other Sinn Fein members and cumanns to not recongnise the Irish Dail, they walked out and turnt their backs on the Republican Community, why does Sinn Fein get thousand of votes around the island of Eire and your micro groups dont, because they offer no serious alternative mate...

The British Labour Party, at various times in their history, have declared that they want a 32 county Irish Republic. Does that make them any less a British Constitutional Party?

As for the rest of your post, I refer you to the following:

http://irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7349

[Young Irelander]

Yeah but does Mainland British Parties have any major political mandate in NI, as Sinn Fein is not a Constituional Party, it is an All-Ireland Republican Party...

[Cael]

Yeah but does Mainland British Parties have any major political mandate in NI, as Sinn Fein is not a Constituional Party, it is an All-Ireland Republican Party...



Thats funny. I could have swore that Adams signed the GFA, i.e. he promised to operate within the British Constitution. And what is a British Constitutional Party? Yes, thats right. A party which operates within the British Constitution.

Nice to see that you consider Britain the 'mainland'. Im sure you'll go very far.

[wherenow]

Cael cad a bhfuil do strategy.

Cael, what is your strategy for obtaining a unitied Ireland?

[Young Irelander]

Sinn Fein is an All-Ireland Republican Political Party...

[TomClarke]

Thats funny. I could have swore that Adams signed the GFA, i.e. he promised to operate within the British Constitution. And what is a British Constitutional Party? Yes, thats right. A party which operates within the British Constitution.

Nice to see that you consider Britain the 'mainland'. Im sure you'll go very far.


yeah, plus we live in "NI" too.

a recent stoop blow in perhaps

[Young Irelander]

Yes while Sinn Fein is the largest Nationalist/Republican Party, while microgroups represent who? Nobody!

[ciaranxavier]

Yes while Sinn Fein is the largest Nationalist/Republican Party, while microgroups represent who? Nobody!

and how will your attitude bring about a united ireland? i mean since you consider anyone whos not PSF micro, which is another way of saying insignificant.

[mickyk200]

and how will your attitude bring about a united ireland? i mean since you consider anyone whos not PSF micro, which is another way of saying insignificant.
RSF is insignificant...
it's a piddly wee party with the agenda of the drunk guy at an Eire Og concert...

[kev86]

RSF is insignificant...
it's a piddly wee party with the agenda of the drunk guy at an Eire Og concert...


Can you explain why/how ?

[mickyk200]

Can you explain why/how ?
No seats(even if you arn't going to take them, ya still don't have them)
f*ck all electoral support
f*ck all popular support

Even the athstetic aspect. The Upper Bann candidate's posters were paper stapled to cardboard and his picture was clearly taken in his kitchen.

[Young Irelander]

Will when you consider Sinn Fein's massive mandate to any micro group, then yes they are insignificant, they recent Stormant elections should show that the people want Sinn Fein's strategies and do not want to continue on with the armed struggle, that they want a stable and prosperious country, free of violence...

[ciaranxavier]

RSF is insignificant...
it's a piddly wee party with the agenda of the drunk guy at an Eire Og concert...

and considering your fellow irishmen piddly wee drunk people is going to unite ireland how?

[ciaranxavier]

Will when you consider Sinn Fein's massive mandate to any micro group, then yes they are insignificant, they recent Stormant elections should show that the people want Sinn Fein's strategies and do not want to continue on with the armed struggle, that they want a stable and prosperious country, free of violence...

good to see that the irish people opinion that vary from yours are insignificant in your eyes. and you didnt answer my question how is your attitude going to help bring about a united ireland?

[mickyk200]

good to see that the irish people opinion that vary from yours are insignificant in your eyes. and you didnt answer my question how is your attitude going to help bring about a united ireland?
The opinion isn't insignificant...the front of that school of thought is...

[Young Irelander]

Wil my attitide is the attitude of thousands of Irish Republicans across the whole of Ireland, that is how it will help...

[Foyleview]

good to see that the irish people opinion that vary from yours are insignificant in your eyes. and you didnt answer my question how is your attitude going to help bring about a united ireland?

It s not just about attitude. its about having a plan and a stratagy. its about building support. Sinn fein are the only group with a plan. we know what we want, and we know how we are going to get it. we may have to cross bribges , over which we would perfer not to go. Into the lions den. but we will go there. we will take on our enemy on their own ground. we know that our day will not just come. we must make it come.

[tireoghan]

A Chara, i think you are so so wrong. shooting and blowing people up does not unite them. reincarnation of the armed struggle what a nice way of saying lets get back to blowing up shoppers. I cannot express to you how opposed i am to your position. the use of armed resistance is only something to be used for defence or when there is NO other options available.

What a cop out. The use of armed struggle by the PIRA and generations of freedom fighters beforehand was to make the 6 counties ungovernable; the use of arms defended the Irish people but the armed struggle was a war to rid the island of British interference.

There was other options avaliable to the PIRA as opposed to war; if they wanted they could have accepted the Sunningdale Agreement or the AIA; they would have ended up the same way now.
Seems to be you come from the Civil Rights end of nationalism and not the Republican side of the tradition; or perhaps the revisionist republicanism

[ciaranxavier]

It s not just about attitude. its about having a plan and a stratagy. its about building support. Sinn fein are the only group with a plan. we know what we want, and we know how we are going to get it. we may have to cross bribges , over which we would perfer not to go. Into the lions den. but we will go there. we will take on our enemy on their own ground. we know that our day will not just come. we must make it come.

see thats where your wrong the RSF have Eire Nua and so on. they arent the only ones with a plan its just theyre the only ones willing to disarm themselves to work with the english.

[ciaranxavier]

Wil my attitide is the attitude of thousands of Irish Republicans across the whole of Ireland, that is how it will help...

but not every irish republican. and if the majority of ireland hates anyone not PSF then it might help but until then it wont.

[ciaranxavier]

The opinion isn't insignificant...the front of that school of thought is...

and what would that front be micky.:confused:

[Young Irelander]

You see thats what you are not accepting Sinn Fein is the largest Republican party out of all the parties relevant to this forum, they are bigger than Republican Sinn Fein, the 32 County Soverignity Movement and the Irish Republican Socialist Party, they are the the only serious minded and the only Republican party with a crediable mandate, they are the Republican Party that is representing all classes of the Republican Movement, I am aware of the Republican Sinn Fein's Eire Nua, good luck to them, but I see the Sinn Fein peace strategy as the only way forward to the reunification of the Irish Republic...

[Foyleview]

see thats where your wrong the RSF have Eire Nua and so on. they arent the only ones with a plan its just theyre the only ones willing to disarm themselves to work with the english.

sure they cannot unite among themselves , what is the hope they will ever be able to unite Ireland. they are just a bunch of squabblers who s intuition is to attack and critise anything constructive.
if i where part of the british securocratt resigm . i d give them and mc allaster crowd a pile of money and support for doing my jod for me.

[ciaranxavier]

sure they cannot unite among themselves , what is the hope they will ever be able to unite Ireland. they are just a bunch of squabblers who s intuition is to attack and critise anything constructive.
if i where part of the british securocratt resigm . i d give them and mc allaster crowd a pile of money and support for doing my jod for me.

thats not why nope. theres reasons i dont support PSF either.

[Foyleview]

thats not why nope. theres reasons i dont support PSF either.
you keep on safe ground. don t tell any one who you support so that you cannot be questioned , but attack others who honestly and clearly show their hand.
almost as smart as the guy who always waits to buy the last drink in the round.

[Young Irelander]

Well you have to support some movement?

[Irish Republican Patriot]

you keep on safe ground. don t tell any one who you support so that you cannot be questioned , but attack others who honestly and clearly show their hand.
almost as smart as the guy who always waits to buy the last drink in the round.

"Others who honestly and clearly show their hand" - like the Adams Faction! Cop on fella.

[ciaranxavier]

you keep on safe ground. don t tell any one who you support so that you cannot be questioned , but attack others who honestly and clearly show their hand.
almost as smart as the guy who always waits to buy the last drink in the round.

i show my hand very clearly, just because its not holding a partys hand makes me on safe ground??? no it means that i dont agree with the tactics or direction of any of the parties in the running at the time being.

[Young Irelander]

Good enough then you support nothing in other words...

[ciaranxavier]

Good enough then you support nothing in other words...

check my profile if you care that much thats why theyre there. and i support the unity of ireland, the armed resistance of a foreign occupier, among other things.

[Young Irelander]

Yeah but which republican entity?

[ciaranxavier]

Yeah but which republican entity?

check my profile, i can not put it in simpler words then that.

[Young Irelander]

i show my hand very clearly, just because its not holding a partys hand makes me on safe ground??? no it means that i dont agree with the tactics or direction of any of the parties in the running at the time being.


Does the above not mean you support any group or do you mean paramilitary group or political party, I beleive that the group says on your profile is not a political party, so maybe that is what you mean?

[ciaranxavier]

Does the above not mean you support any group or do you mean paramilitary group or political party, I beleive that the group says on your profile is not a political party, so maybe that is what you mean?

that is what i mean, i dont support any political party at the time being. i support a political movement. and i do support armed reaction against a foreign aggressor, i dont pledge myself to one armed group though.

[Young Irelander]

What do the people of Eire want, a united Ireland through peace or war?

[ciaranxavier]

What do the people of Eire want, a united Ireland through peace or war?

its hard to tell as there hasnt been an all ireland vote as of yet. and even then no matter how large a percentage support a political avenue over an armed one, you cannot deny the fact that they are justified and entitled to wage armed action against the foreign power.

[Young Irelander]

If that is your opnion I respect that, but considering the Irish people in the six counties are still just in a post-insurrection society, the majority of Irish Republicans in the North want peace, they no longer want a war, they have seen it in the last 35 years, the Provisional Movement dont forget where a far larger organisation than both the Real and Continuity IRA, do you seriously beleive that these movements are the way forward to the reunification of the Irish Republic, do you not just support your parties policies and hope they can be brought about peacefully?

[ciaranxavier]

If that is your opnion I respect that, but considering the Irish people in the six counties are still just in a post-insurrection society, the majority of Irish Republicans in the North want peace, they no longer want a war, they have seen it in the last 35 years, the Provisional Movement dont forget where a far larger organisation than both the Real and Continuity IRA, do you seriously beleive that these movements are the way forward to the reunification of the Irish Republic, do you not just support your parties policies and hope they can be brought about peacefully?

as i respect yours. and i understand that people would rather take the political road and thats their choice but at the same time them making that choice gives them no right to all of a sudden turn around and tell others that their right to oust the foreign power is not longer legitimate. and im aware the PIRA were a large and influential movement but do you think this was the way it always was? no the PIRA had to start somewhere too gaining numbers and support. and i dont know if they are the sole movement forward but i believe they have a right to be there and a right to hit english targets as long as they continue to hold onto the 6.

[Young Irelander]

as i respect yours. and i understand that people would rather take the political road and thats their choice but at the same time them making that choice gives them no right to all of a sudden turn around and tell others that their right to oust the foreign power is not longer legitimate. and im aware the PIRA were a large and influential movement but do you think this was the way it always was? no the PIRA had to start somewhere too gaining numbers and support. and i dont know if they are the sole movement forward but i believe they have a right to be there and a right to hit english targets as long as they continue to hold onto the 6.

Yes the Provisional Republican Movement started off as well but look at it this way the Continity IRA and the Real IRA have been allegadly been around since 1987 and 1997 respectively, they still do not enjoy major support as the Provisionals did, I see the Provisionals as they only serious Republican entity that can bring around the reunification of the Irish Republic, I see them as the only legitimate republican movement because I beleive that Republican Sinn Fein and the 32 County Soverignity Movement should have tryed to stay within the ranks of the Provisonal Republican Movement and should have got the support they needed to continue down the paths as they are doing so today, yes the British Government should not be in the regions of the six counties, but militarily they are far more superiour...

[ciaranxavier]

Yes the Provisional Republican Movement started off as well but look at it this way the Continity IRA and the Real IRA have been allegadly been around since 1987 and 1997 respectively, they still do not enjoy major support as the Provisionals did, I see the Provisionals as they only serious Republican entity that can bring around the reunification of the Irish Republic, I see them as the only legitimate republican movement because I beleive that Republican Sinn Fein and the 32 County Soverignity Movement should have tryed to stay within the ranks of the Provisonal Republican Movement and should have got the support they needed to continue down the paths as they are doing so today, yes the British Government should not be in the regions of the six counties, but militarily they are far more superiour...

they may have been around until then but you must remember the PIRA were around and recruiting at that time as well. and it wouldve been impossible for those two groups to work inside the provisional movement as support for a military faction has been dissallowed, which i dont think and they dont think they should have to agree too. and the english yes are far more superior but at the same time they have to be far more careful about what they do with that strength in ireland or else they risk boiling the pot over.

[Young Irelander]

they may have been around until then but you must remember the PIRA were around and recruiting at that time as well. and it wouldve been impossible for those two groups to work inside the provisional movement as support for a military faction has been dissallowed, which i dont think and they dont think they should have to agree too. and the english yes are far more superior but at the same time they have to be far more careful about what they do with that strength in ireland or else they risk boiling the pot over.

Risk boliling the pot over, you will have to develop on that for me, yes the Provisionals where around at the same time too, but these movements have been around for a considerable amount of time also, to be honest I see the Real IRA a far bigger threat than the Continity IRA, as they have still not I beleive injured a member of the security forces, I could be wrong, but if you are being rational here, unless something major happens, unless Sinn Fein call for armed struggle ever again I really do not see any return to any form of armed struggle as I beleive the next generation of Irish Republicans will try to gain the reunification of the Irish Republic through peaceful and democratic ways...

[ciaranxavier]

Risk boliling the pot over, you will have to develop on that for me, yes the Provisionals where around at the same time too, but these movements have been around for a considerable amount of time also, to be honest I see the Real IRA a far bigger threat than the Continity IRA, as they have still not I beleive injured a member of the security forces, I could be wrong, but if you are being rational here, unless something major happens, unless Sinn Fein call for armed struggle ever again I really do not see any return to any form of armed struggle as I beleive the next generation of Irish Republicans will try to gain the reunification of the Irish Republic through peaceful and democratic ways...

by boiling the pot over i mean if the english were to show force in the 6 again it would only suit to **** everybody off. but the other republican armies havent been around as long as the PIRA and have only recently lost the PIRA which will bolster their ranks as the PIRA members who believe in a continued armed struggle are going to migrate somewhere. and i also believe the RIRA to be the more likely one to move forward and become a legitimate fighting force. and i believe if the PSF have lost the right to call for armed struggle again, in order to do that theyd have dissolve and reorganize under a different name, but i disagree that you wont see a return to the armed struggle as history proves different. there has always been the quietening down and then the tensions rising again along with armed struggle. its been a pattern followed for the last 800 years or so.

[Young Irelander]

by boiling the pot over i mean if the english were to show force in the 6 again it would only suit to **** everybody off. but the other republican armies havent been around as long as the PIRA and have only recently lost the PIRA which will bolster their ranks as the PIRA members who believe in a continued armed struggle are going to migrate somewhere. and i also believe the RIRA to be the more likely one to move forward and become a legitimate fighting force. and i believe if the PSF have lost the right to call for armed struggle again, in order to do that theyd have dissolve and reorganize under a different name, but i disagree that you wont see a return to the armed struggle as history proves different. there has always been the quietening down and then the tensions rising again along with armed struggle. its been a pattern followed for the last 800 years or so.

This has been a pattern is right, but this is the very first time that Irish Nationalists/Republicans are treated equally as the other side of the community, this is the very first time where the six counties was not a unioinsts ruled and made more secterian decesions every single day, this has all changed and the republican/nationalist people are represented in equal terms and it is also the first time where the British Goverment will recongnise that if the majority of the people of the six counties want the reunification of the Irish Republic, then it will happily oblige... What Sinn Fein is trying to do is to prepare for a new Ireland and to try and accomadate the loyalists/unionists side of the community into the reunification of the Irish Republic...

[ciaranxavier]

This has been a pattern is right, but this is the very first time that Irish Nationalists/Republicans are treated equally as the other side of the community, this is the very first time where the six counties was not a unioinsts ruled and made more secterian decesions every single day, this has all changed and the republican/nationalist people are represented in equal terms and it is also the first time where the British Goverment will recongnise that if the majority of the people of the six counties want the reunification of the Irish Republic, then it will happily oblige... What Sinn Fein is trying to do is to prepare for a new Ireland and to try and accomadate the loyalists/unionists side of the community into the reunification of the Irish Republic...

agreed it is the first time theres a level playing field in the political arena, but that doesnt take away from the fact that irish people still have the right to take up arms. and though this is the first time that the english have allowed a vote to decide the fate of the 6, i dont think that it changes the fact that the english divided the 6 so the unionists were the majority population. which will make it hard to get a majority, unless theres pressure in the rear (ie- the continuation of the republican armies and their activities.) thats where my theory of a two pronged approach will come into play. i believe that the largest chance at a united ireland is by utilizing both methods to maximum effeciency. like i said i dont disagree with the PSF choosing the more political path, i just disagree with them making PIRA disarm. if anything they shouldve either discontinued support for PIRA well letting them continue their activities or changed their parties name to distance themselves altogether from the republican armies. both wouldve worked just as well the only difference is the largest wing of the republican armies wouldnt have been rendered useless.

[Carlos McJackle]

[QUOTE]agreed it is the first time theres a level playing field in the political arena,

nope , unionists still have a veto over the rest of the island

and though this is the first time that the english have allowed a vote to decide the fate of the 6,

no it isnt , they had a border poll in the 1970s .Most nationalists boycotted it because the result was a foregone conclusion , and to participate in it would give the appearance of democracy to an undemocratic unionist veto . Unionists have repeatedly asked Britian for a border poll since 1998 in order to make the point ulster is british and the postion democratic . To see this unionist demand being touted as nationalist strategy amazes me


i believe that the largest chance at a united ireland is by utilizing both methods to maximum effeciency. like i said i dont disagree with the PSF choosing the more political path, i just disagree with them making PIRA disarm.

Sinn fein tried to cod the republican base that this is what was happening . the terms of the agreement sinn fein signed up to made it very clear the provos had to disarm if sinn fein were getting into British office . and the unionists made very clear of they didnt they would not sit with sinn fein . And if that didnt happen no gfa .choice doesnt come into it. Sinn Fein decisions are determined by British preconditions in this process beforehand . Sinn Fein are guilty of telling their community what they signed up to was meaningless therefore their community should support it . That was a lie . Sinn fein are firmly bound by what they signed up to .


if anything they shouldve either discontinued support for PIRA well letting them continue their activities or changed their parties name to distance themselves altogether from the republican armies. both wouldve worked just as well the only difference is the largest wing of the republican armies wouldnt have been rendered useless.

it was rendered useless by its own leadership , who were useless

[Young Irelander]

The Sinn Fein leadership was useless, will then thousands of people across the island of Eire would disagree with you on that point, saying that the Sinn Fein leadership is useless, how can that be taking as a vakid point, the organisation on whom you support, what have they done to further the cause of the Irish Republic, except send documents to the United Nations, how can this help when the UK are on the security coucil and has many allies in the United Nations, it is up to Sinn Fein to represent their mandate and to improve the lives of there voters while at the same time developing strategy fore the Reunification of the Irish Republic...

[ciaranxavier]

The Sinn Fein leadership was useless, will then thousands of people across the island of Eire would disagree with you on that point, saying that the Sinn Fein leadership is useless, how can that be taking as a vakid point, the organisation on whom you support, what have they done to further the cause of the Irish Republic, except send documents to the United Nations, how can this help when the UK are on the security coucil and has many allies in the United Nations, it is up to Sinn Fein to represent their mandate and to improve the lives of there voters while at the same time developing strategy fore the Reunification of the Irish Republic...

thousands might disagree but not the whole island and thats all that matters. and what documents has the PSF brought to the international playing field about the irish right to their land? other then joining the EU which britains a part of and one of the only countries that has the "right" to keep its currency, kind of biased but i guess that doesnt matter it only does when the UN is involved. and how can you reunify ireland when your doing nothing more then serving to normalize british rule and laws?

[Young Irelander]

thousands might disagree but not the whole island and thats all that matters. and what documents has the PSF brought to the international playing field about the irish right to their land? other then joining the EU which britains a part of and one of the only countries that has the "right" to keep its currency, kind of biased but i guess that doesnt matter it only does when the UN is involved. and how can you reunify ireland when your doing nothing more then serving to normalize british rule and laws?

Yeah not the whole island but when you consider when people are voting for Sinn Fein, SDLP, UUP, DUP, the Alliance party, PUP, that would be in the six counties and in the Irish Republic, Fianna Fial, Fine Gael etc, thats what the people are voting for while the likes of RSF, 32CSM have no political mandate, that is what the people are voting for peace... That is why the micro groups should disband with immediate effect as the pose no serious threat to the Irish Peace Process or the British War Machine...

[ciaranxavier]

Yeah not the whole island but when you consider when people are voting for Sinn Fein, SDLP, UUP, DUP, the Alliance party, PUP, that would be in the six counties and in the Irish Republic, Fianna Fial, Fine Gael etc, thats what the people are voting for while the likes of RSF, 32CSM have no political mandate, that is what the people are voting for peace... That is why the micro groups should disband with immediate effect as the pose no serious threat to the Irish Peace Process or the British War Machine...

so youd rather the irish people who have a voice other then the PSF to disband well the likes of the DUP and UUP run around? your a sick and twisted individual and id hate to see what your version of a united ireland would look like. wed be a bunch of lackies for the unionists.

[Young Irelander]

So Irish people dont vote for the SDLP, Fianna Fail etc, well the DUP and the UUP have political mandates, what are you meant to do ignore them, how is the best way of bringing about the reunification of the Irish Republic, sending all unionists to England, killing them all or sneaking it over night, no I am more rational, not stupid...

[Irish Republican Patriot]

"That is why the micro groups should disband with immediate effect as the pose no serious threat to the Irish Peace Process or the British War Machine"

If it is true that the "micro groups" (are they made up of little wee men each a few millimetres tall I wonder?) pose no threat to the Sell-Out Process, why are you always going on about how they do indeed pose a threat to the Sell-Out Process and should disband and slobber all over the feet of Carson's statue like Sir Gerry and Sir Marty?

[Irish Republican Patriot]

So Irish people dont vote for the SDLP, Fianna Fail etc, well the DUP and the UUP have political mandates, what are you meant to do ignore them, how is the best way of bringing about the reunification of the Irish Republic, sending all unionists to England, killing them all or sneaking it over night, no I am more rational, not stupid...

Yeah, well, the problem there is that to Republicanism the so-called Unionist "mandate" has not a shred of legitimacy, nor does "Unionism" in general.

[Young Irelander]

Irish Republican Patriot are you secterian, the Irish Proclamation preaches equality, the unionist mandate has to be respected, you might not like it but millions of people disagree with you, its just a way of life, sell-outs, so let me see then ex-IRA prisoners whom spent years in jail who supports the Irish Peace Process are sell-outs, Gerry Kelly is a "sellout" even though he has been more successful Irish militant than any micro-gruop member, the term sell-out should be applied to the micro-groups as they walked away and turnt there backs on the Republican family, while Sinn Fein activists are dealing with Irelands issues everyday, the micro groups are doing absolutly nothing and continue to have no credibility as a republican armed group, they have still not outgunned the Provisionals and never will, the time for peace is now, the armed struggle was the Provisionals fight, and no micro group...

[Irish Republican Patriot]

"Irish Republican Patriot are you secterian, the Irish Proclamation preaches equality, the unionist mandate has to be respected"

I think it is you who is more sectarian than I, going on about the "Unionist mandate" and other special treatment for "Unionists", setting their wishes above those of the vast majority of the Irish people. "Unionism" has to be considered, yes, but it is not worthy of the slightest shred of respect from a Republican and never will be.

"millions of people disagree with you"

Millions? Hardly. I'd say one million at worst, which works out to about one-sixth of the total Irish population.

"the term sell-out should be applied to the micro-groups as they walked away and turnt there backs on the Republican family"

Would that be the family of Don Gerry? You're a mixed up fella altogether...

[Young Irelander]

I am secterian, I support the reunification of the Irish Republic, I supported the Provisional IRA and I still support there path of going down the peaceful way, I am secterian when I consider unionists in the reunification of the Irish Republic, they do not deserve a shread of respect, ok tell me this then what would be your way of getting these people into the reunification, does one million people not matter, lets be honest here the country is seperated, a border does exist, but what can you do to get these people into a united Eire? Why would I be secterian now...

[Irish Republican Patriot]

I am secterian, I support the reunification of the Irish Republic, I supported the Provisional IRA and I still support there path of going down the peaceful way, I am secterian when I consider unionists in the reunification of the Irish Republic, they do not deserve a shread of respect, ok tell me this then what would be your way of getting these people into the reunification, does one million people not matter, lets be honest here the country is seperated, a border does exist, but what can you do to get these people into a united Eire? Why would I be secterian now...

I don't give a damn about accommodating "Unionism" because it is all a load of bull****, and "Unionists" have never had any right to obstruct the realisation of the Irish Republic. If they don't like it, then too fecking bad.
P.S. I apologise for the simplicity of the above comments, but I'm gettting a bit tired of having to constantly try to educate you and repeat myself, and yes, as far as I'm concerned your insistence on the need for special treatment for "Unionism" makes you more sectarian than I.

[Young Irelander]

I don't give a damn about accommodating "Unionism" because it is all a load of bull****, and "Unionists" have never had any right to obstruct the realisation of the Irish Republic. If they don't like it, then too fecking bad.
P.S. I apologise for the simplicity of the above comments, but I'm gettting a bit tired of having to constantly try to educate you and repeat myself, and yes, as far as I'm concerned your insistence on the need for special treatment for "Unionism" makes you more sectarian than I.

You still did not tell me how you are going to get a million unionists into the Irish Republic, you have short minded views all what your arguments is about how Ireland was stolen, God Sake, typical history basher, no real contributer to anything, no real serious debate, more debate in my dead granny...

[Irish Republican Patriot]

You still did not tell me how you are going to get a million unionists into the Irish Republic, you have short minded views all what your arguments is about how Ireland was stolen, God Sake, typical history basher, no real contributer to anything, no real serious debate, more debate in my dead granny...

Ireland was stolen. I know you lot believe staunchly in the wisdom of British rule these days, but I don't.

[Young Irelander]

Stolen, was it put in Englands's pocket?

[Irish Republican Patriot]

Stolen, was it put in Englands's pocket?

No, the country and its people was beaten, oppressed, raped, pillaged and populated with hostile foreign colonists.

[Young Irelander]

Do not forget the majority of the Irish people where victimsed for their ole Gaelic and religious ways, do not forget that Irish People where not allowed land unless the converted to the Anglican Faith, do not forget the Irish Famine, do not forget the executions of the Rising Leaders, do not forget Oliver Cromwell's total and utter destruction of Dundalk, do not forget the harsh treatment of Sir Roder Casement, do not forget the harrassment of Irish Catholics throughout the 800 year war, do not forget that Catholics had to split up their lands to each of there sons while anglicans did not...

[Irish Republican Patriot]

I try not to. What's your point? Are you one of these "forgive and forget, turn the other cheek" people?

[Young Irelander]

No im just giving you some facts to hate England anymore, as you seem as one of them people that get all republican when drinking

[Irish Republican Patriot]

No im just giving you some facts to hate England anymore, as you seem as one of them people that get all republican when drinking

Nice try, but I don't drink.

[Young Irelander]

Prove it?

[Irish Republican Patriot]

How am I suppose to do that then?

[robertemmett]

No im just giving you some facts to hate England anymore, as you seem as one of them people that get all republican when drinking

so IRP is drunk? what an incredibly rude insult. :hmmm::hmmm:

[ciaranxavier]

So Irish people dont vote for the SDLP, Fianna Fail etc, well the DUP and the UUP have political mandates, what are you meant to do ignore them, how is the best way of bringing about the reunification of the Irish Republic, sending all unionists to England, killing them all or sneaking it over night, no I am more rational, not stupid...

no i know that the unionists will have to be in the process. the only difference is me unlike you think every irishman should be involved not just the PSF. i never said kick the unionists out or kill them all.

[Mellows1922]

How am I suppose to do that then?

breathe really hard on the screen

[Young Irelander]

no i know that the unionists will have to be in the process. the only difference is me unlike you think every irishman should be involved not just the PSF. i never said kick the unionists out or kill them all.

I was not talking to you, that was meant to be for IRP, your views of uniting Eire are the attitude of a drunking person, that better Robert Emmet?

[ciaranxavier]

I was not talking to you, that was meant to be for IRP, your views of uniting Eire are the attitude of a drunking person, that better Robert Emmet?

please explain how my views are that of a drunk, considering i rarely drink.

[belfast rep]

please explain how my views are that of a drunk, considering i rarely drink.

ah but its not your only vice

[ciaranxavier]

ah but its not your only vice

please explain?

[Young Irelander]

I was not referring to you but IRP.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

It might be easy for you to try and dismiss my views as those of a drunk, but it simply won't work. I am, for one thing, simply too articulate and rational for that.

[mickyk200]

It might be easy for you to try and dismiss my views as those of a drunk, but it simply won't work. I am, for one thing, simply too articulate and rational for that.
I agree, you have the agenda of a drunkard at an Eire Og concert.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

I agree, you have the agenda of a drunkard at an Eire Og concert.

And you sir, have the agenda of a British civil servant.

[Young Irelander]

I agree, you have the agenda of a drunkard at an Eire Og concert.

Could not say it better myself...

[robertemmett]

I agree, you have the agenda of a drunkard at an Eire Og concert.

oh you mean the type of people that put the money in buckets for the ra and bought the raffle tickets at irish nights. well i do suspose p$f dont really need the great unwashed anymore, not now that they have the brits funding their offices, wages. holiday homes, drivers.. etc.

[Irish Republican Patriot]

Not forgetting the sums from the good people at Thames House...