The Holocaust (1933–1945)

[DFCRFB]

“Holocaust” is the term describing the Nazi annihilation of about 6 million Jews (two thirds of the pre-World War II European Jewish population), including 4,500,000 from Russia, Poland, and the Baltic; 750,000 from Hungary and Romania; 290,000 from Germany and Austria; 105,000 from The Netherlands; 90,000 from France; 54,000 from Greece.

The Holocaust was unique in its being genocide—the systematic destruction of a people solely because of religion, race, ethnicity, nationality, or sexual preference—on an unmatched scale. Along with the Jews, another 9 to 10 million people—Gypsies, Slavs (Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarussians), homosexuals, and the disabled—were exterminated.

1933
Hitler named German Chancellor (Jan.). Dachau, first concentration camp, established (March). Boycotts against Jews begin (April).
1935
Anti-Semitic Nuremberg Laws passed by Reichstag; Jews lose citizenship and civil rights (Sept.).
1937
Buchenwald concentration camp opens (July).
1938
Extension of anti-Semitic laws to Austria after annexation (March). Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass)—anti-Semitic riots and destruction of Jewish institutions in Germany and Austria (Nov. 9). 26,000 Jews sent to concentration camps; Jewish children expelled from schools (Nov. 9–10). Expropriation of Jewish property and businesses (Dec.).
1940
As war continues, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squads) follow German army into conquered lands, rounding up and massacring Jews and other “undesirables.”
1941
Goering instructs Heydrich to carry out the “final solution to the Jewish question” (July 31). Deportation of German Jews begins; massacres of Jews in Odessa and Kiev (Nov.); and in Riga and Vilna (Dec.).
1942
Mass killings using Zyklon-B begin at Auschwitz-Birkenau (Jan.). Nazi leaders attend Wannsee Conference to coordinate the “final solution” (Jan. 20). 100,000 Jews from Warsaw Ghetto deported to Treblinka death camp (July).
1943
Warsaw Ghetto uprisings (Jan. and April); Ghetto exterminated (May).
1944
476,000 Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz (May–June). D-day (June 6). Soviet Army liberates Maidanek death camp (July). Nazis try to hide evidence of death camps (Nov.).
1945
As Allies advance, Nazis force concentration camp inmates on death marches. Americans liberate Buchenwald and British liberate Bergen-Belsen camps (April). Nuremberg War Crimes Trial (Nov. 1945–Oct. 1946).

[DFCRFB]

We come to the question:
how is it with the women and the children?
I have resolved even here
on a completely clear solution.
Heinrich Himmler, 1943
http://www.holocaust-history.org/

[quirk]

I don't think that it started in 1933 although this is when Hitler became chancellor. Initially the Nazi's planned to extradite all the Jews from Europe to somewhere else (Madagascar one of the places being thought of), but when war broke out this became impossible and then the 'final solution' began to come into effect.

[DFCRFB]

The best film i seen on it was Schindlers list. totally outstanding film, one of the best ones ive ever seen.

[ciaranxavier]

The best film i seen on it was Schindlers list. totally outstanding film, one of the best ones ive ever seen.

amazing movie, my favorite part is when they get the real people or their children to walk past the graves or whatever they were walking past at the end. not only was it a deep moment but it also put into perspective how close to our day and time these atrocities were.

[robertemmett]

has anybody watched the holocuast denial moview that is one You tube? it is about 4 hr in total. there are some very interesting points raised in it. that is if you interested in the sources and the critique of the sources that the narrator offers.

while i suspose it is an anti semitic film, there is absoulty no triumphalism in the movie, it is just a dispassionate look at the weakness of the sources concerning the camps at treblinka, sobibor and madjenck.

it is worth a watch.

[robertemmett]

just checked on youtube, as it was awhile since i watched it. it has been banned from youtube now. but the maker as gave a new link...

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

[robertemmett]

I am not a holocuast denier (before the abuse starts)

[DFCRFB]

just checked on youtube, as it was awhile since i watched it. it has been banned from youtube now. but the maker as gave a new link...

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

nice one mate, cheers.

[Foyleview]

What about the Irish Holocaust that comenced 1845.
I always find it amaising how ww1 and ww2 are continually talked about and discussed, yet the Irish holocaust that was taking place about 50 years before the start of ww1 is seldom mentioned. the end of ww2 was 62 wears ago. Just take a minute and think of the time line. it was not that long ago really.

[robertemmett]

why not start for a thread for the famine. as i am sure there is plenty to discuss over it. i would start by saying that the reason why the holocuast of the ww2 is so morbidly interesting is the mechanized nature of the killing that went on.

[Foyleview]

I would say that it probably is more to do with the inequality of one human life over another.
It was only Paddies who died in the Irish holocaust. It was the chosen people mostly who died in the german holocaust.
in fact the irish holocaust was worse in that everyboby knew it was hapening. it appeared in the newspapers. it carried the authority of a people as well as a government. It could be argued that this was not true german case.

[robertemmett]

but why not start a thread for the famine?

[quirk]

but why not start a thread for the famine?

Start one on it also. This is the international history section and I think this thread was started because it might be a little contriversal with some of our members and thus encourage debate.

[ciaranxavier]

What about the Irish Holocaust that comenced 1845.
I always find it amaising how ww1 and ww2 are continually talked about and discussed, yet the Irish holocaust that was taking place about 50 years before the start of ww1 is seldom mentioned. the end of ww2 was 62 wears ago. Just take a minute and think of the time line. it was not that long ago really.

because the world sees it as a potato famine not a holocaust. you know what they say the victor writes history.

[robertemmett]

well you could say that Famine was a negative holocuast in that the english didnt care enough to allievate the suffering in ireland. the nazi holocuast was a positive one in the sense that the nazi actively set about killing the jews, roma and sinti etc.

i accept that there were numerous examples of landlords deliberately removing tennants rather than pay the poor law tax on them. but on the whole the british allowed the famine to become a holocuast due to neglience, whereas the Nazi went out of their systematically organise the holoucast, with infrastrucure set up to faciliate it. the nazi were even perpared to jepoardise their war effort to ensure the extermination of enemies of volksmeinschaft.

[DFCRFB]

but why not start a thread for the famine?

go for it mate, you start the thread and the rest will follow you onto it.

[ciaranxavier]

well you could say that Famine was a negative holocuast in that the english didnt care enough to allievate the suffering in ireland. the nazi holocuast was a positive one in the sense that the nazi actively set about killing the jews, roma and sinti etc.

i accept that there were numerous examples of landlords deliberately removing tennants rather than pay the poor law tax on them. but on the whole the british allowed the famine to become a holocuast due to neglience, whereas the Nazi went out of their systematically organise the holoucast, with infrastrucure set up to faciliate it. the nazi were even perpared to jepoardise their war effort to ensure the extermination of enemies of volksmeinschaft.

it was more then negligence they took what food the irish had to feed the english in ireland and britain.

[robertemmett]

recently i organised for Eva Clarke a survivor of the Holocuast to come to speak to young people about the Nazi regime and the perscution of Jews in Germany. she spoke very movingly about her story, and more particularly, her family experiences.

it was a testament to the power of her story that the group of a hundred young people from ages 14-18 listened with rapt attention for 90mins.

i have included her story below.

Eva Clarke
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/categories/c54805/gallery/images/110683645625485300506_1.jpg

Eva was born in Mauthausen Concentration Camp, Austria, on 29th April 1945. Eva and her mother were the only survivors from their family, 15 members of who were killed in Auschwitz: 3 of Eva’s grandparents, her father, uncles, aunts and her 7 year old cousin, Peter.

1933, the year that Hitler came to power, was also the year that Eva’s father left Hamburg for Prague. It was here in Prague that he met Eva’s mother, Anna. The couple went on to marry on May 15th 1940.

In December 1941 her parents were sent to Terezin/Theresienstadt, a ghetto just outside Prague. Eva’s parents were young and strong making them competent workers and integral to the running of the ghetto. This ensured that they stayed in the ghetto for three years, an unusually long length of time. Despite the sexes being separated in the ghetto, Anna fell pregnant. The couple were forced sign a document stating that when the baby was born, it would have to be handed over to the Gestapo to be killed. Yet, before the ghetto officials knew of the birth of Anna`s son, Dan, he died of pneumonia at 2 months of age. His death, however, meant the preservation of Anna’s life.

Eva’s father left Terezin on a deportation and Anna, unaware of the final destination chose to follow him on another transport, despite being pregnant for a second time with her daughter Eva. Anna arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau on October 1st 1944. Had she arrived with a baby, she would have been sent immediately to the gas chamber but be-cause she did not and her pregnancy was not yet visible she was selected to work as a slave labourer in an armaments factory in Freiberg near Dresden. She remained there for 6 months, getting weaker by the day whilst becoming more visibly pregnant.

Tragically, she never saw her husband again and he never knew she was pregnant. She discovered after the war that he had been shot on 18th January 1945, less than a week before the liberation of Auschwitz by the Russian army.

As the Nazis retreated Eva’s mother and her fellow prisoners were forced onto a train evacuating them from Freiburg. A three week nightmare journey around the Czech countryside ensued; the prisoners were subjected to starvation and scarcely any water. The train arrived at Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria, on 29th April 1945. Eva’s mother had such a shock when she saw the name of this notorious camp that she went into labour and without any type of medical assistance Eva was born on an open cart.

The gas chamber at Mauthausen was blown up on 28th April 1945, the day before they entered the camp and the American Army liberated Mauthausen three days after Eva’s birth. The timing of their arrival ensured the ultimate survival of both mother and daugh-ter.

After the war, in February 1948, Eva and her mother returned to Prague, where Anna married Eva’s stepfather and in the same year they emigrated to the UK. In 1968 Eva married an academic lawyer, and today has two sons and continues to reside in Britain. Eva’s mother, Anna Bergman, is featured on the interactive DVD-ROM Recollections: Eyewitnesses Remember the Holocaust.

[eghzarw]

Thank you for posting this very touching story.

I'll show it to my students, too.

[no one]

What about the Irish Holocaust that comenced 1845.
I always find it amaising how ww1 and ww2 are continually talked about and discussed, yet the Irish holocaust that was taking place about 50 years before the start of ww1 is seldom mentioned. the end of ww2 was 62 wears ago. Just take a minute and think of the time line. it was not that long ago really.

yea its quite odd how all you ever hear about is the holocaust, when there are things just as bad, way more recently... not talking anything away from how terrible and tragic the holocaust was.... but think about the kmher rouge in cambodia, rowanda in the 90s, or what is still happening right now in the congo..... why arent these things ever talked about even HALF as much? skin color perhaps?

[robertemmett]

some would suggest that reason is that the western countries are suffering pangs of guilt over the treatment of the jews during ww2. one could also say that the jewish community became quite strong in the hollywood industries and the politics of the eastern usa so being more able than those other peoples to get their stories out.

there has been some attempts by film makers to look into those geocides you mentioned.

the killing fields for eg i thought was an excellent film
hotel rawanda another... although i have not seen it.

but i agree that those other genocides have been criminally ignored. schools teach the nazi holocaust but i bet would not look the ones you mentioned.

[no one]

the killing fields is an excellent film, as is hotel rwanda, but the point is the vast difference in discussion comparing, basically every genocide of the last century, to the european holocaust. if you put them all together they still dont even come close to the exposure recieved by the holocaust.

ive met holocaust survivors and their story is no doubt heart breaking, and all too common the world over, i just dont think anyones stories about the similar things should be held up higher than anyone elses.... the women and children in cambodia and rwanda arent worth any more or any less (especially) than those in europe during ww2

[robertemmett]

do think it a case that we consider the holocaust of white people worthy of more attention than that of people of colour?

i am sure thats a huge element of it. then again that excesses of the stalin purges, gulags etc doesnt get the same attention as the holocaust.

[eghzarw]

then again that excesses of the stalin purges, gulags etc doesnt get the same attention as the holocaust.

Looking into this issue quite recently, I got the impression it is somewhat the other way round in Russia nowadays (i.e. more talk of the stalinist repressions than of the Holocaust). But then there was always a strong ant-Jewish sentiment there, and Jews have emigrated in large numbers after 1989.

[ciaranxavier]

the killing fields is an excellent film, as is hotel rwanda, but the point is the vast difference in discussion comparing, basically every genocide of the last century, to the european holocaust. if you put them all together they still dont even come close to the exposure recieved by the holocaust.

ive met holocaust survivors and their story is no doubt heart breaking, and all too common the world over, i just dont think anyones stories about the similar things should be held up higher than anyone elses.... the women and children in cambodia and rwanda arent worth any more or any less (especially) than those in europe during ww2

i agree and i think its aboiut time they stopped asking for money as well. i read in the paper today that i believe its the belgium government are giving a huge amount of money as compensation for the holocaust. my first question to anybody whod like to answer is why are the belgians paying compensation for hitlers acts?

[QuinnP]

lots of disabled people, those like me who look different, or walk with a limp, were also murdered.

[Nationalrevolutionär]

The family Quandt supported Hitler and the NSDAP and they produced the gas for the concentration camps. There was also forced labour in their factories. Today there are still a very powerfull and rich family in Germany. They own 46,6 % of the BMW stocks. In 2006 they donate over one milion euro for the CDU (christian democratic union), one of the biggest parties in Germany. Angela Merkel, the actually chancellor of Germany, is a member of it. I can't understand why they are still so powerfull after what they did in the nazi-regime.

Hm, it's very sad that everybody in the world just knows Hitler, the Holocaust and WWII when they think about Germany :(

[Pablo]

At least modern Germany has faced up to it's past crimes commited during the Nazi era and teach their children about the camps, gas chambers etc. It is a great pity countries like Britain and the US would not follow the example of the Germans and face their own bloody Imperial past/present.......... They might then in future generations be a force for good in the world and lose the AngloSaxon superiority complex that allows them to mentally justify any horrors they have bestowed on peoples of the world and always make the claim that their actions are for the betterment of the world. That they know what is best for you, even if they have to murder and torture your people to teach you what is best for you, i.e. American/Brit culture. All else is inferior and they will bomb the **** out of you to prove it and never feel they are behaving criminally.

[larkin32]

At least modern Germany has faced up to it's past crimes commited during the Nazi era and teach their children about the camps, gas chambers etc. It is a great pity countries like Britain and the US would not follow the example of the Germans and face their own bloody Imperial past/present.......... They might then in future generations be a force for good in the world and lose the AngloSaxon superiority complex that allows them to mentally justify any horrors they have bestowed on peoples of the world and always make the claim that their actions are for the betterment of the world. That they know what is best for you, even if they have to murder and torture your people to teach you what is best for you, i.e. American/Brit culture. All else is inferior and they will bomb the **** out of you to prove it and never feel they are behaving criminally.so many generalisations in that comment .also to class all germans as anti-nazis today,and pro-isreal and also their current chancellor,wouldnt do 60+ million people justice. (in germany)
also was good to see anna mertle laying a reath and speaking in the kneS$et today.60 years since the nakba,that is still happening...
.

[mickyk200]

The holocaust never happened...
Germany was on holiday for 5/6 years...*looks shifty* lol

[ciaranxavier]

The family Quandt supported Hitler and the NSDAP and they produced the gas for the concentration camps. There was also forced labour in their factories. Today there are still a very powerfull and rich family in Germany. They own 46,6 % of the BMW stocks. In 2006 they donate over one milion euro for the CDU (christian democratic union), one of the biggest parties in Germany. Angela Merkel, the actually chancellor of Germany, is a member of it. I can't understand why they are still so powerfull after what they did in the nazi-regime.

Hm, it's very sad that everybody in the world just knows Hitler, the Holocaust and WWII when they think about Germany :(

thats because not only germans got rich off their atrocities americans, british, business men from all over cashed in on the war where they could. so if they were to prosecute those germans that made money from the war theyd have to prosecute the americans that made it rich and so on.

[Pablo]

so many generalisations in that comment .also to class all germans as anti-nazis today,and pro-isreal and also their current chancellor,wouldnt do 60+ million people justice. (in germany)
also was good to see anna mertle laying a reath and speaking in the kneS today.60 years since the nakba,that is still happening...
.

I never classed all Germans as anti-nazi or pro-Israeli......How can you get that impression from my post. As a nation they teach their young of their past barbarism and the world would be better off if the UK and US did the same.... This was the thrust of my post.

[larkin32]

so many generalisations in that comment .also to class all germans as anti-nazis today,and pro-isreal and also their current chancellor,wouldnt do 60+ million people justice. (in germany)
also was good to see anna mertle laying a reath and speaking in the kneS today.60 years since the nakba,that is still happening...
.

I never classed all Germans as anti-nazi or pro-Israeli......How can you get that impression from my post. As a nation they teach their young of their past barbarism and the world would be better off if the UK and US did the same.... This was the thrust of my post.

yeah i never said you did.but you paint germany as being perfect as aligned to us/uk... ive lived their.and although there is a strong leftist tradition in parts of germany... there are alot of "ultrarightwingers" too,its not just a waspish thing either.
and i made the point of germanys chancellor going to celebrate zionism ,when palestinians nearby are in the situation they are in.today.!:)

[Red Revolutionary]

The world is full of double standards, not just with reference to holocausts.

Look at the Madeline Mc Cann scenario last year, the amount of press coverage and media given to that. And yet in the course of The Congolese Civil War over 50,000 children have been abducted.

Also I really doubt that the Madeline Mc Cann case would have received half the publicity if she was Black and her parents werent Middle Class.

[Sean Russel 88]

We will never know what happened, it is pointless to speculate.

[mynameisstíofán]

Are you seriously suggesting that "we may never know..." what happened during The Holocaust? I hope so, haha, I REALLY hope you are...

[mickyk200]

The world is full of double standards, not just with reference to holocausts.

Look at the Madeline Mc Cann scenario last year, the amount of press coverage and media given to that. And yet in the course of The Congolese Civil War over 50,000 children have been abducted.

Also I really doubt that the Madeline Mc Cann case would have received half the publicity if she was Black and her parents werent Middle Class.
The British people can better relate to a nice wee white girl going missing on holiday; that's something English people in their suburban cul-de-sacs are afraid of,not those brown people in some far away land. You often hear on the BBC or ITV about an accident of tragedy abroad followed by the words "Britons were killed/injured". What about everyone else?!

The only thing that they can relate to the Democratic Republic of Congo is their fair trade tea bags.

[Seán1798]

We will never know what happened, it is pointless to speculate.

Some weak banal inadequates with an inferiority complex got the run of the German people and they butchered millions of people.

[mickyk200]

Some weak banal inadequates with an inferiority complex got the run of the German people and they butchered millions of people.
Well that's not really true. The Nazi Party was never in a majority until they consolidated their power. It was never a true democratic decision. I don't think it's fair to blame the German people, the destruction of the Weimer republic was ultimately due to President Hindenburg's ill mental health in his old age and how easily manipulated he was by senior right-wing politicians.

[Seán1798]

Well that's not really true. The Nazi Party was never in a majority until they consolidated their power. It was never a true democratic decision. I don't think it's fair to blame the German people, the destruction of the Weimer republic was ultimately due to President Hindenburg's ill mental health in his old age and how easily manipulated he was by senior right-wing politicians.

Aye Micky but the end result was that they got the run of the German people. I'm not blaming the German people for this it could have happened anywhere. The person I was replying to with the Heil Hitler (88) in his name doesn't even think that there was a Holocaust.

[mickyk200]

Aye Micky but the end result was that they got the run of the German people. I'm not blaming the German people for this it could have happened anywhere. The person I was replying to with the Heil Hitler (88) in his name doesn't even think that there was a Holocaust.
Oh right sorry a chara, point him in the direction of stromfront or irish-nationalism. This site or republicanism on the whole is no platform for nazism.

[JPL]

The holocaust was disgusting. It makes me cringe to even think about it. Poor people. Anyone who denies the holocaust is an idiot. It really ****es me off to see people can be like that.

[mynameisstíofán]

I still haven't quite come to accept that Holocaust deniers actually exist. The fact that someone could deny this is so unfathomable that I simply cannot wrap my brain around the realization that those people exist in this world. Maybe some alternative, zaney world where cows are actually made of peanut butter... but not this world.

[Red Revolutionary]

We will never know what happened, it is pointless to speculate.

No platform for Fascists!

[Hessian Peel]

yea its quite odd how all you ever hear about is the holocaust, when there are things just as bad, way more recently... not talking anything away from how terrible and tragic the holocaust was.... but think about the kmher rouge in cambodia, rowanda in the 90s, or what is still happening right now in the congo..... why arent these things ever talked about even HALF as much? skin color perhaps?

Well the atrocities in Cambodia are greatly exaggerated. The widely documented figure is 2 million deaths which seemed to be decided upon by the Western media, particularly in the US, as a nice round figure that would do the job. The reality is no-one is really sure how many were killed but it's more in the region of tens of thousands directly and hundreds of thousands killed indirectly by the KR.

A far greater crime, in relative terms, is the Indonesian invasion of East Timor and the subsequent genocide that took place there. The reason why we don't hear about this but we hear about the Holocaust, Cambodia or Rwanda (neither of which really compare to Nazi war crimes) is because of who the perpetrators were/are. If the West is involved it's very difficult to find any information about such atrocities in the mainstream media. Saddam Hussein's crimes are now reported, but with Western involvement blotted out.

When Tony Blair was brokering peace in Ireland he was sending shipments of Harrier jets to the Indonesians to continue their extermination of the Timorese people. :(

[Sceptical]

The holocaust was disgusting. It makes me cringe to even think about it. Poor people. Anyone who denies the holocaust is an idiot. It really ****es me off to see people can be like that.

I agree. Thankfully since the Lipstadt Libel case the main 'intellectual' support for Holocaust denial has been fully discredited and destroyed. Although David Irving is still around unfortunately but it's clear that he and those who support him are nutjobs and recognised as such. However, his recent appearance on the Late Late Show did raise the spectre of turning him into a martyr as he managed to turn the focus away from his holocaust denial to a question of free speech. Protests against him, that deny him the right to speak, run the risk of this.

On the holocaust itself. When I was in school we had a survivor in to talk about their experiences of the concentration camp. Their story was absolutely harrowing. Although the one thing that struck me about the person was the hate that the person still held towards Germany. I think that was the worst thing about the holocaust perhaps, that even for the people who survived it, it still destroyed their life.

I also visited one of the camps very eerie experience looking at the crematorium and the bunk houses etc. but I would recommend it to anyone.

[mynameisstíofán]

Well the atrocities in Cambodia are greatly exaggerated. The widely documented figure is 2 million deaths which seemed to be decided upon by the Western media, particularly in the US, as a nice round figure that would do the job. The reality is no-one is really sure how many were killed but it's more in the region of tens of thousands directly and hundreds of thousands killed indirectly by the KR.

A far greater crime, in relative terms, is the Indonesian invasion of East Timor and the subsequent genocide that took place there. The reason why we don't hear about this but we hear about the Holocaust, Cambodia or Rwanda (neither of which really compare to Nazi war crimes) is because of who the perpetrators were/are. If the West is involved it's very difficult to find any information about such atrocities in the mainstream media. Saddam Hussein's crimes are now reported, but with Western involvement blotted out.

When Tony Blair was brokering peace in Ireland he was sending shipments of Harrier jets to the Indonesians to continue their extermination of the Timorese people. :(

Quite true. We really have to be rational though, it's not like there is some kind of conspiracy that keeps the Holocaust in the forefront of peoples thoughts. We're talking about a major nation in the world, Germany, killing via internment and execution somewhere in the range of 5 to 6 million people bases solely on their faith. They weren't casualties of a war fought in their streets, their own people defending themselves with guns. They were just rounded up and murdered. And as well, the result was also the biggest global war in history. So I mean, yeah, it is kind of notable in that.

[Pablo]

I still haven't quite come to accept that Holocaust deniers actually exist. The fact that someone could deny this is so unfathomable that I simply cannot wrap my brain around the realization that those people exist in this world. Maybe some alternative, zaney world where cows are actually made of peanut butter... but not this world.

They do exist....and some of them are of a very high calibre of intellect. The most recent high profile case of a Holocaust denier was that English Proffessor (can't think of his name right now). He does the college lecture circuit and has written books on the subject. He was jailed in Austria for one or two years for it (not sure how long). He was then booked to speak in Cork University but it was cancelled due to many outraged objectors....He also had his defenders in Cork/Ireland demanding that he should be allowed free speech and that debate was being stifled.

[Mellows1922]

They do exist....and some of them are of a very high calibre of intellect. The most recent high profile case of a Holocaust denier was that English Proffessor (can't think of his name right now). He does the college lecture circuit and has written books on the subject. He was jailed in Austria for one or two years for it (not sure how long). He was then booked to speak in Cork University but it was cancelled due to many outraged objectors....He also had his defenders in Cork/Ireland demanding that he should be allowed free speech and that debate was being stifled.

yeah that was yer man David Irving, Pablo. Think it was after AFA made it clear they would be there if he was allowed speak in Cork that the gig was cancelled. Didn't stop Pat Kenny giving him free air time on RTE though, playing the poor misunderstood me card.

will you txt me your mobile mo chara, don't think I have a current one for you.

[quirk]

Irving doesn't deny the holocaust but rather disputes the numbers. Although many who where holocaust deniers have now switched tact and dispute numbers I think it is wrong to criminalise such questioning.

I personally find no reason to dispute the 6 million figure but like all other historical events it should not be closed to debate. This was the exact point the president of Iran was making when they lied about him and said he claimed the holocaust was a myth.